Jeremy, I can't agree on this. After the civil war, when American industry moved from cottage industries to value-added metal, rubber, railroads, meat packing, on the producer end of this explosion, stood a massive concentration among producers, and the armed might of the government. It was only right that unions were formed, to bring the collective power of labor against the collective power of capital and the government. What they fought for was, yes, an end to unsafe conditions, but so much more - the Haymarket riots, for instance, were about an 8 hour day, something seen as humane today. Against this, was the most bloody violence against a mobilized labor movement the world had yet seen.
That was a very well informed comment. Thank you. I agree with Mia that the power of unions is being abused by some or many unions today. I think that the good intentions of labor unions of the past are now pretty corrupt.
and there are no abuse and corruption in the corporate world the unions have been in decline for the past 30 years and the result has not been good for the middle class
Yeah, cause abuse in the corporate world makes abuse in the union world ok... The point is, unions are continually overstepping their bounds. In my experience it is not the middle class in unions.
unions are the middle class! i don't know what planet you are living in? cops have a union fire fighters, bus drivers, hotel workers, movie industry, whatever manufacturing that is left, and many many others. .
nursing, and state unions , my parents , grandparents all union people at one time or another my grand father has stories about how companies used to hire goons from NYC to come up state to break strikes, one of his buddies had acid throw on his face one night to show the other workers what happens when you strike you never just worked out in the world MIA?, without a degree or whatever. Anyone who has worked entry level jobs in any blue collar industry , knows that usually the only way to make a decent living is to be part of union
Baring the acid, sounds like a good idea. Personally, I'd just fire them. Yes. I've done just about everything.. But I, unlike people in Unions (save for the ones forced in) have a high work ethic. I've taken pride in every job I have done, no matter how miserable it may have seemed at the time. I've never just refused to work, never called in, and always gave 100%. Extorting money out of people might seem like a decent way to make a living, but it is anything but honest.. It's behind the union label where you find the real scab.
and they would strike and shut your business down, so essentially they would fire you back, its all fair in capitalism
Ah, no.. You fire people who do not work, and hire people who do... Thank God I live in a right to work state..
I don't doubt that's true, Jeremy. As I've come to know you, I believe you to work hard as hell and have such a code as you post above. But I don't think it's fair to look back at the labor movement in America as one of workers attempting to merely extort something from capital. It was really shitty out there. Men, women and children were dying (and no always from accidents on the job), and far from a "free market," workers were facing a concentrated, unified front on the other side of the table - the United States government saw the development of heavy industry as a national priority, and squarely sided with your Carnegies, your Morgans, and other scions of heavy industry, with armed violence at the ready. In other words, workers faced an organized producership, and it was entirely warranted that labor brought its collective power to the table.
Understood, but the goals of unions have changed... Here is what a union does when you are a member: 1. Tells you how to vote 2. Tells you where to shop 3. Tells you when to work 4. Tells you when not to work Don't join? Even in a right to work state? Here is what a union does: 1. Get's you fired 2. Beats you up 3. Spreads rumors about you 4. Threatens family members Looks like it is the non-union people who get acid on their faces...
dude do you even know anyone in union? my mother's , sister and stepfathers unions do none of those things scheduling is not decided by the union, they can work other places if they want to, they are not told where to shop or who to vote for they ensure they have benefits and job security mostly, although of course there are some incompetent people who are protected who should be gone
Yes. Sure... Yes, they are... Take a look at their mail some day. A number of years ago a new Aldi's went up and the store owners did not use a union concrete company so no the Aldi's got as far as having concrete poured... No electrician would do wiring, no carpenter would build a wall... You get the picture.. The local unions told everyone not to shop at Aldis stores, and laborers not to do work for the new store until they hired unskilled over priced union dirt bags... Unions contributed over 60 million dollars of your mommy's, sister's, and step daddy's money to the Clinton campaign... Aside from the money spent on mailings telling them just who they should vote for... So much for taking responsibility for one's own life... I
oh here we go, here is mia's real problem with unions I doubt the unions my family are in , contributed much to political campaigns, my step fathers union is a state government union, but either way if campaign contributions are what will help their cause then why shouldn't they do it? Do you have a problem with corporations contributing to politicians, to help further their agenda? If you don't then you are essentially full of shit, right? I mean if its good for the corps why should you have a problem with unions doing the same thing. they are taking responsibility ... by forming a union which will gives them greater power then the individual
Here's what happens when an electrical contractor refuses to use Union Laborers. US Cellular hired a popular electrical contractor to do some wiring for them at a cell site at a cell tower I helped build. Pieper was the name. (not sure on the spelling). Anyway, one of the local hard ass enforcers from the union insisted Pieper use a union apprentice. They said no... So the union hard ass came back to the site and smashed a brand new back hoe (had less than 2 hours on it). The irony here is, that in trying to send a message to the Pieper guys, this union asshole trashed a back hoe that not only did not belong to Pieper, or US Cellular... It belonged to those of us that built the site and did the grading, etc... We were using it that day to install the ground ring. The union cost ME money and time as a result of their ignorance and stupidity and love for violence. Yeah, unions are great...
There are probably good unions and union bigwigs and probably bad ones. The strong arm tactics are not good for anyone in the long run. That's really messed up what they did to your back hoe. I don't condone that behavior any more than I do environmentalists destroying other machinery or defacing things (and I would consider myself an environmentalist).
Wow - that's really messed up. I'm really sorry, Jeremy. Everything, unfortunately, is consolidation and power interests. Against consolidated capital, you have consolidated labor, and both seek their interests, and as consolidation is rarely good for anyone but the corporate bodies themselves, they both blow, in my opinion. I think this is endemic to the economic system and was put in place at its inception.
yeah i guess following your logic, all blacks are bad because one held me up at gun point sorry about your bad experience with some individuals but that does not negate the good unions have done for thousands of people over the years
Why must you always segway into race...? Since you brought it up, no, not a good example... A better example would be blacks who are a member of a militant group.. Let's say a "union that likes to fart in elevators".. So using "my" logic, I guess it would be fair to say that "black elevator farting union bosses" are bad... I'm talking about a group and a mentality, not a race or an individual. The fact of the matter is, around here (again, we are a right to work state)... Unions strong arm people... My sister is a nurse, and these crazies she was working with put her in tears day after day with their threats... These were not fat bald middle aged teamsters.. These were women, mothers, old, young, etc. ie., other nurses. No one should have to be a part of a union if they do not want to be.. The sad truth however is, you either are, or you just don't participate, get motivated to leave, or smacked around a bit.. And by smacked, it is not always physical... Believe me, I support what a union was original intended to achieve. One of my college thesis's was on the Triangle Shirt Factory Fire... Too me, an event that birthed the union in America. Some great advancements and rules have come out of the early union in the US. The trouble is, Unions have become nothing but excuses to create nothingness for money. Oh, but I think it does... The ideals and progress of one union translates across to the next. I think you know full well that a good union will still support its brothers in a bad union. I've seen that happen time and time again... I've not yet had a positive experience where as a union was involved.. I'll let you know when I do..