Re: your statement about truth being a defence to defamation in the United State - I think you are in for a surprise. As we clearly established above - I had offered to make payment - therefore your statement that I had not is verifiably false. From the Wikipedia article (and yes I didn't need to look any further)" "All states except Arizona, Arkansas, Mississippi, Missouri, and Tennessee recognize that some categories of statements are considered to be defamatory per se, such that people making a defamation claim for these statements do not need to prove that the statement was defamatory. In the common law tradition, damages for such statements are presumed and do not have to be proven. Traditionally, these per se defamatory statements include: Allegations or imputations "injurious to another in their trade, business, or profession" Allegations or imputations "of loathsome disease" (historically leprosy and sexually transmitted disease, now also including mental illness) Allegations or imputations of "unchastity" (usually only in unmarried people and sometimes only in women) Allegations or imputations of criminal activity (sometimes only crimes of moral turpitude)[16] " You could also check out the electronic freedom frontier. http://w2.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-defamation.php All interesting reading I hope. I'm not trying to bluster - it's highly unlikely I would purse defamation action through our US representatives as it's far too expensive - but I would certainly not try to think that you can hide from future such adventures you feel compelled to go on. Dylan
Above guys should work out this and actually work from begining with some other 3rd party service escrow. So such situations will not arive.
Hey, I take it personal when I do not get what I have already earned. Who doesn't? In as far as making the post on your forum thread, I have made you popular enough already. My intention is to prevent you from wasting time of others in a similar situation. Now, if I accomplished more than that I suppose ----that is as much your problem as you have been mine.
Funny you should mention it but you actually have made me popular - I have received 6 offers of SEO services since you re-opened this thread. I also note that you still haven't addressed the fact that: 1) I - in fact - was offering to make payment 2) You decided to start this whole debacle anyway - and let it go much, much further than could have been retrieved by a simple apology on your part. If you had put this much effort into SEO'ing my site - I would have been rapt. Dylan
To say you established an offer to remit payment is inaccurate. why would we be having this exchange if this were true? we would not and you did not. Furthermore, I was the one that stated I would not argue over the matter. To which you did not respond. You obviously, overestimate yourself. In addition, I changed my mind. I have every interaction: negotiation, discussions, emails, and IM transcripts. If you comment again here I may be forced to demonstrate the obvious. If there is any damage to you or yours it is your own fault. Perhaps default is a better term in respect to your actions. And, - given you continue forward with a balance due. I am owed at minimum -the last word. if not here....somewhere.
Two words come to mind, and I can't use that phrase here. but, I can demonstrate. since you believe yourself so clever, I leave it to you to figure it out. good day mate
I'll save you the trouble: 1) Email from me to you 7th November - 5:36 Australian time "Hi Tonya, I'm confused. I thought I'd talked with you at the half way point about whether or not we wanted to go ahead with the second half due to some concerns about our emerging link profile. You said that I should have a think about it - and that we would chat before we went ahead. I also haven't received any reports from you in the last 3 weeks so assumed that nothing more was happening. Is the last bit correct? Thanks" 2) Email from you to me - November 7th - 6:24 "I asked you to join me at IM for a chat which never transpired. so I completed the reporting and sent you everything including raw data. The actual waiting period was to allow Google's penalties for those sites which they had believed to be buying and selling links to take effect. I also wanted to make certain blog posts and article sites were not being penalized in the same manner as those having their page rank reduced. Given Google has no intention of penalizing the methods I had planned for your SEM and SEO campaigns -which we initially discussed via chat- I went ahead and completed the reporting in accordance with our overall project. Since then with the strategy I had suggested we implement we have witnessed your url reclaim its top positions on Google.com.au search with the overall results sent with the payment balance request. Had the methods I had created failed to produce results as identified, I would not have been so inclined as to insist on the balance being remitted. However, given we have accomplished the identified goals on several primary key terms and phrases, I feel the request is justified given we have met the project goal of #1 Google.com.au. Incidentally, the project was initially to be implemented on a do-it-yourself basis but I did a number of the actual steps in order to demonstrate how the process worked as a whole. Of course, the option to remit the balance is entirely up to you as we did not sign a contract and were operating only on good faith. I will simply leave it to your own determination. Regards, Tonya Thomas" 3) Email from me to you - I will start putting in bold the relevant sections - November 7th - 6:37 "Hi Tonya, I think we may have been at cross-purposes in our initial discussions. If what you suggest reflects our discussions I will certainly remit payment as I want to be fair. However: 1. My understanding was that the option we selected was not do-it-yourself (which would have been $100) - but that I had selected the cheaper option of 6 weeks for $400 as opposed to 12 weeks for the larger amount. The initial agreement clearly included that you would do keyword optimisation, link-building, social media etc - rather than being something that I implemented. 2. I had also understood that you would carry out activities over that six week period - rather than the second half being a wait-and-see. 3. I had also assumed based on the last email I received from you that we were going to wait and see: I received this in response to the email I spent expressing concern at the half way point: "Why don't you evaluate exactly how much you have gained based on this project investment and ultimately decide if you want to continue forward. " Does that sound like it correctly reflects your understanding? I certainly apologise for not getting back to you in a timely fashion - but I am working three jobs at the moment and had 524 flagged emails around that time (since reduced substantially) Thanks" 4) Email you to me: 1:08 - same day "Actually, I agree with primarily the same understanding as you have stated with the exception of the balance remaining in question. You can take a look at our entire transcript taken from Digital Point Forums. Along with the spreadsheet which demonstrates the realized goals having been met. Also, there are various reports, etc. Including articles published at numerous web sites. This one from Helium.com actually represents a great reflection of the remaining articles: http://www.helium.com/channels/652-Unique-Gifts/knowledge/1137-heirloom-gifts While I do not desire ill feelings between one another, I do believe the balance has been earned and is demonstrated by the work reported. The decision, is left with your own good heart and common sense. One final thought, had we had an even larger budget we could have realized the #1 for the hold out key. Especially given the remaining keys have reached the top spots on Google.com.au. Incidentally, given the rather large budget spent on ppc which ultimately realizes no longevity of results, I would hope you would be very happy with the results achieved. Of course, as you will note throughout the DP transcript, I generally do not promise to reach #1 on Google but your project was in excellent position to reach the top so if you ever want to continue forward with your campaign again in the future- I am certain we can push that hold out term to the top spot. I don't take financial issues to heart with the person or the project, sometimes things are simply misunderstood by two humans. However, I think if I were in your position realizing the results and achievements, I would remit the balance. Of course, the matter rests entirely with you. I would even offer to split the difference on the balance if I did not feel it had been earned. In this instance, I feel it has and will not make that offer. Perhaps, had it been you who said let us wait or not go forward rather than myself, it would be a different situation. In most respects, however, I do agree but am sending you the transcript to alieviate all questions in this matter of a remaining balance." 5) Email me to you - important bits in bold - 1:27 "Hi Tonya, I actually think that the transcript reflects my understanding of our agreement. I also still have some problems with the fact that while I have a clear picture of what you accomplised in the first two and a half weeks - I don't actually have a real idea of what you did for the remaining 3.5 (and my understanding is that we were entering into a time-based rather than results-based agreeement because you were not willing to guarantee the latter) I would also like to mention that I continued working on both content optimisation and link building throughout this entire period - so changes would also need to viewed in that context. In relation to your comment about who had indicated whether we could go forward - I would repeat what I said before. I sent you an email indicating concern with our progress - and I received an email from you saying please have a think and let me know if you want to keep going forward (and thus I had believed that both parties to the transaction were aware that we were going to wait before proceeding any further.) However - I don't think that we are going to get to the same point with this argument - thus to prevent ongoing acrimony I will try and arrange the release of the payment - while also still keeping in mind all the concerns I raised above. It might take some time as I will have to go through all the points you raise with my boss (who will need to authorise the payment) but I'll see how it goes." 6) You to me - 1:50 "No it was never a time based otherwise we would not have stated objectives. There was never a set time frame because I always state the Internet delivers at its own pace. I do not own the search engine Google.com.au Why would I suggest we wait and see if I thought you would use it as a reason not to remit the balance due? Clearly, I would not. Tonya" 7) Me to you "Hi Tonya, Stated objectives = the goal Time frame = how much time you are willing to reach that goal. I don't see that they are in contradiction. I would also note this quote from the transcript: "I can work with a budget of no less than $400. But can't guarantee top positioning. The smaller budget being over 6 weeks." In relation to "wait-and-see" I sent you an email saying: "I probably want to have a chat to you about strategy before we go ahead. I've been having some thoughts about progress previously." (this was at the half way point) You sent me back one saying: "Why don't you evaluate exactly how much you have gained based on this project investment and ultimately decide if you want to continue forward." Since we had not communicated after that point - I think it's reasonable to assume that nothing was to happen until that decision was made. But it's not worth arguing - I will talk to my boss and see what I can do" 8) November 7th - 2:05 (To be continued)
"Good luck in the future with your current projects. Really. While I am shocked, I can't be bothered looking back as it only wastes my energy and aggravates me. Two conditions that a couple of hundred dollars are not worth. It is easier for me to locate a new client in the canvas print business niche than continue hacking through this losing situation where you are concerned. Regards," As per my promise in my last email I simply chose not to keep arguing as it was both counter-productive and reflected poorly on each of us. I was pursuing payment with my boss as I had also promised when you posted this thread. Dylan
I remember once setting up a web designer friend with another friend that need a web design made. That other friend aggreed to go ahead with the project than bailed on my web designer. I could have left my web designer friend cold if i was thatw ay, but i chose to go beyond the call of duty and paid the webdesigner out of my pocket and i actually lost money on a project that wasnt mine, but i gave this small thing called MY WORD. I may not be the smartest person or the toughest or the best out there but one thing with me is when i give my word i will do it even if it costs me money out of my pocket. I have been burnt many times before but i sleep with a clear conscience that i have never burnt anyone in my life.
Thanks for your input ping-pong - and I agree entirely. If you read the emails I had already offered to make payment despite feeling that I was being ripped off after a very clear understanding. Instead she decided to re-open this thread - which now ranks for my company's (not mine) domain name on the second page of google. I'm just struggling with the fact that somebody would choose to be so vindictive - particularly in the context where being vindictive deprives them of an opportunity for money. It doesn't make commercial or moral sense - and in particular starting a feud does not do anyone any favours - particularly as everyone becomes vulnerable when it comes to that level. Still - who knows why people act as they do? Dylan
Hi Tonya, Up until this point I actually genuinely proved that this may have been a misunderstanding on your part. I'm starting to wonder if you are being purely malicious. Please check your emails and you will see that it's a straight cut and paste from the last five emails we exchanged - if you can see where I've made any direct changes to the body of the emails I will make payment - that's a promise. I would also point out once again that your email you post supports my case. If you had posted the full section you would have seen that you had offered: 1. 400 for six weeks 2. 800-1000 for three months In the context of you not guaranteeing results - and only targeting the same keywords - the only difference is the amount of time you were going to put in. Dylan
actual project began 9/20/2007. Get Real!! Here is the email from our original negotiation. You can't select and alter transcripts and expect them to represent truthful statements. Here is the original email on digital point that details our agreement. simply put, you are not honest little guy and we both know it. Now, the rest of the world also knows it. Keep it up. You are the one falsely representing yourself. It is not my problem or intention to keep this a live issue. If you shut up with commenting then so do I. TO continue forward damages both you and I. but, given I am the one owed both your apology and payment, I can keep this up forever. I do not even need to have the last word. I will allow you to have it: this negotiation and date transpired 9/10/2007 work actually began after waiting for initial downpayment. today's date is 11/14/2007 You do the math. I have been requesting payment for more than a week with no success. You have demonstrated proof of the original agreement below. YOu have demonstrated and proven results shown earlier. any more questions? follow url of the image for my real thoughts on the situation. I'm done wasting time and energy on losers like you.
Hi Tonya, Thanks for making this really easy. And I note that you have not come back to point out any falsities in the transcripts I provided (despite my very genuine offer in that regard) Dylan
Yes. I misunderstood. I trusted you. Yet, you are lacking in integrity. We both know this is beneath us. Your lack of payment alone is enough demonstration. Obviously, I am demanding what you offered? I am certain everyone sees the reality here. Time and Truth Always Tell. Now. knock it off. I am done with both you and your 'now popular' thread. Page 2 huh? Damn, I am good. No disputing this part of the project. You may keep the money and I hope it serves you well.