I just caught a commercial offering a free Book of Mormon so I visited http://www.mormon.org and requested a copy. Knowing very, very little about the religion, I decided to browse YouTube for the subject to see if I could gather a bit of info. The first video I found was: http://youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo Looks a bit outdated and the video title suggests that maybe the Mormon Church doesn't agree with the history as it is outlined. Can anyone confirm or deny some of these things about the church, its views on the afterlife, and who exactly Joseph Smith was?
I do believe you're right about monotheistic religions insofar as creation is concerned - I'm Buddhist myself. It's a well-organized religion with many adherents though, and that makes it as important to understand as any other strain of human thinking.
We've had some here before. Not sure if they are active now. I don't ever recall the BOM saying things like "smite off the heads of the infidels and besiege them where they lay." I could be wrong on that though, but history would seem to confirm it.
No, the religion itself doesn't seem very violent by nature, but some of the views expressed in what I've seen and read so far are quite disturbing and very different from the typical views held by Christian people. Take a minute to watch that crazy cartoon
I'm ashamed to admit I just did. I kept telling myself "you don't get your news from cartoons, we gave up cartoons in the early 70s" but I felt compelled to oblige. I'm sorry I did. Here's my rule: If it doesn't threaten my family, my country, my way of life or myself, then believe in whatever you want to, or not want to.
That was subtle... If you really are interested in learning how the church has changed over the years I recommend http://www.amazon.com/Changing-Worl...1603103?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193692718&sr=8-1 You can also purchase the LDS Infobases on CD-Rom from any LDS bookstore to read the Journal of Discourses which contains the history of the church. There is no "official" history however. So it doesn't really matter what it says because the LDS don't take it as fact. Much like the Islamic Hadith. The JoD says Joseph Smith was armed (and I think shot two people) when he was murdered himself. The "official" line is that he was slaughtered like a lamb.
So the history presented in that cartoon doesn't mesh with general Mormon thinking? It seemed very fantastical to me and, while I know that the Mormon religion is fanciful in comparison to more fundamental religions, it was all a bit much to take seriously.
I refuse to watch the cartoon. I don't suppose it would happen to be "The Godmakers?" I refused to watch that cartoon 10 years ago just so I wouldn't ever have to admit to seeing it. If you want to talk to Mormons you need to know what their books say. Not what some silly cartoon says their books say. That's like listening to Richard Dawkins to learn what religion is all about.
PalSys, from at least my past discussions with him, Kalvin has a bit of an issue with people from many different lines of Christianity, beside his own (to include Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses; I think I am probably forgetting many others). Rather than talking to us, if you really want to understand Mormonism today, why don't you talk to a Mormon? Chulium, a member here, is a Mormon. Don't know if he's still active, but you may want to get ahold of him if interested.
Agreed - I mentioned above that I had requested a copy of the Book of Mormon. Just wanted a little insight while I wait. To be clear: are you Mormon or no? What a thought! If you take a look at my thread title you'll see that I'm looking to do exactly that
There were two Mormon's in the P&R threads some months ago I spoke with. One was quite a nice person and the other was a little aggressive. Although we differed on opinions in regards to God and the Bible and religion as a whole, they were relatively decent people.
Yes, I understand and my reply was pretty stupidly framed, more to the point was to flag that Kalvin's "help" may need some context, to say the least; but that's my opinion and, perhaps it wasn't proper in reply here. Sorry. I also wanted to mention Chulium, who is Mormon.
As opposed to np who thinks Jesus is an asshole because he taught that the only way to be saved was through him and that anyone who rejects him is going to hell. That sort of absoluteness rubs NP the wrong way. I'm not mentioning names because it's completely pointless to discuss things with Mormons. The simple fact of the matter is, they don't know. There's what the church teaches and then there's what the members believe. Most of them just don't want to talk about it. They're not there because they necessarily believe it. They're there because they like the people. They put the social aspect over the religious aspect. A lot of people like NP have no concern for the sorts of things Jesus warned people about and they think Jesus is a jerk for claiming to have the only truth. Religious truth doesn't matter. There's nothing that pisses off NP more about Jesus than him claiming the pharisees were wrong about things and going to hell. All that matters is self and thinking that you're a "good person." If you want to talk to a Mormon you need to ask yourself "do you want to be right, or do you want them to be right?" Are you just trying to point out they have no parachute or are you trying to give them one?
Joeseph Smith is one of the people that put the book of mormon together, translated it lol Thats about all I know
"They're not there because they necessarily believe it. " Priceless. Not only are they going to hell, but they don't really believe it. The whole anointing thing, the family home evening, the Book of Mormon - all really just a social club. This is as good as it gets, and that's saying something for my friend "in the know." Actually, I think Kalvin has a problem because a lot of folks like myself believe that Christ's message, from what we know of it, was the purest expression of selfless love for our fellows; Because I don't believe it's part of the Christian message to assume the judgeship of who is, and who isn't, going to hell; because by his own book, Kalvin's presumption of that judgeship is a gross misrepresentation over whose job it is; and so on. Now Kalvin, I have apologized to Palsys for picking up this tired argument with you. I feel you slyly threw in your personal opinion of Mormons just as I slyly threw in my personal opinion of your views. I'd suggest we allow the man to do what he asked, talk to Mormons, without the blather of others not Mormons taking up the bandwidth. Agreed? Oh, sorry, I see that you Kalvin is refusing to mention the Mormon members he knows here, despite Palsys's request, because they're idiots who don't know their own Church and its teachings. Nevermind!
Yep yep. There's nothing that makes Jesus a bigger jerk than pointing out that the Parisees were breakings God's laws and because of that, were on the fast track to hell. Or did you not notice in your stint as a Christian that Jesus was quoting the OT much of the time when he was calling out people? I can really see why you disdain Christ so much. He was constantly applying God's word to men's actions and beliefs and had the audacity to tell them they were following the wrong path. And to top it off, Jesus made it perfectly clear that the wrong path would lead to one place and one place only: hell. I can see why the man upsets you so much that you bring it up anytime someone starts to point out where one religion deviates from God's word. Jesus really just makes you want to scream doesn't he? Why couldn't he be more like Ghandi? Then there's Paul. Don't even get me started. He had the nerve to write letters to churches threating them with hellfire as well for allowing people to break God's laws and for not following the teachings of Christ. He even made a LIST of 10 types of people not going to heaven including murderers, adulterers and homosexuals. What a jerk. I'm starting to see your point NP. There's nothing more loving then just letting people believe what they want to believe even if it's at complete odds with God. We should just keep our mouths shut because who are we to warn people? If you were friends with a scientologist with severe depression there's nothing more loving than not warning them that if they avoid doctors they could end up killing themselves. And then when they do because they're so depressed, thank goodness NP was there to love them along the way by keeping his mouth shut.
The very heart of it: If you are a Christian, you believe the words of Christ: The words didn't say: Bit of a difference, but maybe that's just me. Kalvin, you may have the last rant. Palsys, I have named Chulium, who I know is a Mormon. I don't recall if there are others here. Good luck in your search.
Please do some research on "Hell". Jesus referred to "Gehenna". Not "Hell". Hell is not a Bible teaching. It's mans teaching. If you can make your way through this then Jesus' teachings will be a lot clearer and able to be understood a lot better. Then you can understand what he meant when talking about and talking to the Pharisees.
Only you said that. I don't know why you're so obsessed with me. Are you worried that maybe you got it wrong? I know that's why a lot of people don't like the Catholic church and some protestant churches. They don't want to be told they're wrong. They don't want to believe Christ's message of absolute truth and the consequences for being wrong. How do you understand the parable of the rich man and poor lazarus?