Ace, I'm sorry, but personally I don't care who you believe in. You choose to spar with Toopac, fine. You have my question before you, which is a reasonable one, and you're not dealing with it.
Definitely NOT. The God of the Christians commands His followers to love their enemies. You won't find this in the Koran. Also the word Jerusalem does not appear even once in the Koran. It appears in the Bible (Old Testament as well as New Testament several hundred times) To Jews and Christians Jerusaled is the holiest of all cities. To Muslims it's Mecca. The biggest commandment to Jews and Christians is to Love God and their neighbours as themselves. This command does NOT appear anywhere in the Koran. So Muslims do NOT worship the same God. It would be great if they did but they don't.
This is a thread about airports and ablution sinks, about use of public, governmental facilities. I'd request we stay on topic.
Sorry mate didn't see your post, basically i myself don't agree with religious entitlements, its unamerican but this has been blown way out of proportion, the airport would never provide the shower and because they have done these sinks does not mean any religion will be able to get what they need for their practices since the airport has done it not on a religious reason but a logistical/health one. If someone tried to shower in an airport toilet in the sink or w/e, they would just have security on them after the second time, its unrealistic.
What does jerusalem have to do with God? Is Gods base in jerusalem? No, God is for the whole world, Muslims believe in the Creator of the universe, lord of abaraham, moses, david, solomon, jesus and all the great prophets, peace be upon them! WE ARE COMMANDED IN THE QU'RAN TO TREAT THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK (christians and jews) WELL! Yes we don't believe God was a man who ate and went to the toilet, we reject the trinity, its not even in the bible, but jews also reject it, so you cannot say we do not believe in the same God! We believe in the bible in its original form, the one from God, which we believe doesn't exist and most Christian bible scholars agree! While the Noble Qu'ran is preserved and unchanged for 1400 years, learnt off by heart cover to cover by thousands till this day! btw it also says in the bible to stone infidels and slaughter women who disobey, don't pretend its a book of 100% mercy. Whats the logic in loving my enemy? I don't know many Christians who love sick terrorists, what kind of love would that be? Do you really love our countries greatest enemy - osama binladen? Sorry don't mean to talk about religion in this airport thread. :/
But Ace, that's my point - as unrealistic as it may seem, the fact that anyone of any religion is entitled, by this precedent, to ask what they will as it is a religious "requirement," and I say requirement in quotes not to disrespect the religious tenet itself, but to say that to "require" it on public land, simply doesn't fly, in my opinion, and I am going to the constitution and established legal practice. We specifically have laws in place in order that judgment calls between what is "realistic" and not "realistic" are not left in the hands of individuals - the flip side of which is precisely, by the way, to ensure religion is rightfully protected in its proper place, the private realm. I just can't agree.
I understand what you're saying but thats the airports concern, some people are blaming it on Muslims like crazy toopac, i mean if the airport didn't put the sink, the taxi drivers wouldn't be protesting or anything and if they banned them from using the regular sinks, they would just use bottles, but the airport made the decision to put the foot-sink so thats why i am just saying blaming it on the muslims is like many people in the thread is stupid, the decision lies with the legislators/airport governors.
Ace, that's not true. It's not the airport's concern, or the university's concern - although the cost is negligible in the airport's case, several thousand in the university's case - as a citizen, as I am being asked to contribute tax dollars to a religious requirement, it's my concern. And it is the concern of someone from another religion who is turned down for whatever religious requirement they now have every right to demand. What do we say, for instance, to a religious lobby who now raises the issue (my "misogi" bathers), on principle? On principle, we can say nothing, but must agree to their request. It's a small world, it's a finite facility, and it cannot in practice be accomplished. Which again is precisely why the constitution was set up as it was, to keep it out of the public realm, and protect it in the private realm.
Totally false, i'm an Atheist & know that's simply untrue. We are talking about the US not UK so bringing up where i'm from is irrelevant. Attacking islam because i object to foot-sinks? that the trouble with you folks you claim anyone who doesn't agree to cater for your beliefs is anti-muslim You fail to see any resembalance on purpose or your brain doesn't register it. Because you think infidels should be 'ok' with feet in their sinks? Exactly!
Sure let's not talk about religion even though it's because of a particular religion these dudes want to wash their feet. But you convinced me with your post Christians DO NOT worship the same God as the Muslims. You make a lot of assumptions but you forget the basics: the first Christians were Jews by blood while Mohammed had no connection whatsoever with Judaism. The concept of Jihad also does not appear anywhere in the Bible. The Bible does not ask me to declare war on the infidels. Only one book that does that and that is the problem with having this book memorised to use your expression: "learnt off by heart cover to cover by thousands till this day!"
This thread is about religious requirements in the public sector, not whose god one worships, or whose god is better. May we stick to the topic of this thread, please?
Fine, for the sake of argument, i will agree with you 100%, no religion should have any special entitlement, is that the muslims or misogi's or whatevers concern, we dont go to them and blame them for getting the entitlement thats 100% fruitless. We have to go to our politicians and tell them i don't want to pay for this or its against the constitution. Things like this only cause resentment, i said that in my first post, you get naive nutters like toopac just saying put the muslims in prison if they wash there feet. I mean i don't know about the UK, but here we do things differently.
It's started because he's trying to bring Christians into this which in a sense he's got a valid point. It is after all a pastor (a Christian one) who's trying to have this changed (and for very good reasons). And while to SOME atheists all religions are the same, to others Islam is not something that needs to be promoted or accomodated especially by tax payer dollars.
Good point - I agree with you here, insofar as I hold the airport and the university responsible for this. I would expect there will now be a hailstorm of legal challenges.
Another Christian hypocrite, you don't even follow your bible unless you proclaim your love for Bin laden because of the first statement you made, now you change the subject. Jihad = ever heard of the crusades?, my religion only teaches me to wage war on those who attack me! no where in the Qu'ran does it say what you assert. Exodus 40:31-32: Acts 21:26: look i don't want to disrupt this already chaotic thread, pm me dear christian if you want me to show u how you have been fooled for so long by so many, if not i don't mind either way but don't claim we don't believe in the same God when most christain scholars, say yes we do.
Which is why I said: To which Aceday responded: And from what I can tell, anyway, he has since tried to remain on topic (with the exception of spat between he and Toopac - something for them to work out). I don't care what you believe, or what he believes, What either of you believes in your faith isn't the topic of this thread.
I didn't even see this thread until now... 1) Not every muslim is an Iraqi - we're not at war with islam 2) It says they currently use normal sinks for their feet washing. Ew, give them their outside sinks to keep the normal ones clean.. Now to read all the other posts and catch up...
To Jews and Christians Jerusaled is the holiest of all cities. To Muslims it's Mecca. The biggest commandment to Jews and Christians is to Love God and their neighbours as themselves. This command does NOT appear anywhere in the Koran. You show me this command in the Koran and THEN I will accept you worship the same God. After all, if that's the case, you would expect the basics to be the same wouldn't you? And regarding the Crusades versus Jihad, I can't find it anywhere in the Bible where the Crusades were God ordained, but from what I hear Jihad is a commandment from the Koran. So nope, I still say we don't worship the same God. That is why according to the Koran I am an infidel.
Actually according to the Quran people of the book (christains and jews) are not infidels, hearsay is bad, the Qu'ran doesn't say anything about waging war like that, just because you see a few terrorists on the tv doesnt mean thats what the religion of 1.5billion teaches. How come now its changed from enemy to neighbour, why do you lie to yourself please respond via pm, if u want to reply. Abraham and his son established Mecca's first building! Btw mecca is in your book! The Qu'ran mentions the tribes of Israel many times and refers to them in that way, not people of jerusalem. We regard jerusalem as holy land! And that commandmant your speak of is the core of islam! you missed out the 'ONE' from the commandment btw. I am very well conversed with the bible and i suggest you actually read a few lines of the Qu'ran before you say it says this or that! regards
Can I be an arbiter? Ace, will you agree to stay on topic? Protein, will you agree to stay on topic? Those in favor, say "Aye."