Poor people need to get educated. There are plenty of scholarships and free education programs that allow you to become more educated and make more money. This is the U.S. for crying out loud. It is the land of opportunity. You know how many immigrants have come here from other countries, and have become millionaires, because they took advantage of opportunities available here that were not available in their mother countries? Most of the people I know in my life who are not successful, and do not have money, are in this situation because they are pathetic, ignorant, and have no desire to better their lives. They sit around waiting for handouts like welfare and socialized medicine, and always think everybody owes them something. Socialized medicine will only benefit dead beats like this. If you're poor in America, more than likely, you're poor because you want to be. No one will put a gun to your head, and stop you from saving money, getting scholarships, getting grants, reading a book, etc. You talk about how the private medical companies are only after your money, but what do you think the government is after? They are after your money as well, because we have to pay for this through taxes. With government health care, there is no diversity, your options will be limited. And revolutionary medical technologies won't be available because the government won't offer them in their socialized healthcare plans. I already know what socialism is, here is the definition from Wiki: Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that visualize a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community[1] for the purposes of increasing social and economic equality and cooperation. This is called "the redistribution of wealth, like I stated in my last post. Wiki just made it clear. The community(actually the government) decides that everyone needs to have equal care. The problem is, this doesn't work. It isn't fair if one man breaks his back to become a millionaire or billionaire, and then has to share his wealth with some dead beat, bottom feeding loser that is always looking for handouts. Socialized medicine must be paid for through TAXATION. If you're poor, you probably aren't going to pay much for this tax, because you don't have any money. What that means is simple: the rich, who can already afford private health care, will have to dig deeper into their pockets to pay for a service they don't even need. This means, the wealth is taken from the wealthy, and given to the poor, and that isn't fair. So what you're basically saying is, if you were filthy rich, and could afford private health care, you would be happy if you suddenly had to pay a large percentage of your income to a socialized medicine program you don't even need, thus taking more money out of your pocket? This is America, not the liberal European Union. Socialized medicine goes against everything this country stands for. In fact, the Tenth Amendment of the Constitution makes it clear that anything that is not stated in the Constitution must be decided by the states, not the federal government. The law basically blocks Hillary from offering socialized medicine. The Tenth Amendment blocsk Hillary in theory, because Socialized Medicine, like stem cell research, abortion, and gay marriage, should be decided on a state level, not by the federal government. Socialized medicine is far to complicated to allow the government to give it. This issue should be given to the states. The problem with socialism is that it does not protect the ultimate minority, which is the individual. Socialism is the tyranny of the majority. You know, a lot of you guys who want socialized medicine are the same gang that will probably vote for Hillary, and then attacks Bush and the Republicans for their corporatism and support for big business. What you guys are too blind to see is that Hillary is just as bad. She is just the opposite side of the coin. Can't you guys see that socialized medicine is a ruse to wipe out the upper classes, making us all poor and consolidating the power into the hands of the government? Hillary and her husband are rich. John Edwards gets $400 haircuts and charges $50,000 to speak at public events. Wow these guys sure seem like they understand the plight of poor people. No, with socialized medicine, here is what will happen: 1. Taxes will be levied on the American public to pay for it. Since the poor don't have any money, they will pay the least. The Middle Class and Upper Classes will pay the most. 2. Because the Middle and Upper Classes pay the most, their wealth will be distributed to the poor and the government, reducing their wealth, and possibly wiping out a large segment of the Middle Class, which is already under attack due to inflation, outsourcing, etc. 3. The poor, who are spoon fed by the government through socialized medicine and other social programs, will have no reason to work hard to better their lives, since the government cares for them from cradle to grave. Therefore, the poor stay poor. 4. The poor stay poor, the Middle Class gets wiped out, and the rich are forced to turn over much of their wealth to the under classes and the government. The only entity that benefits is the government, who now has concentrated wealth. One more thing I forgot to mention. Here in the U.S., you're taxed on how much money you make, not how much money you have. So people like Hillary, Edwards, Al Gore, John Kerry and other wealthy democrats will not have to foot the bill for socialized medicine, because they HAVE lots of money. Their wealth will be maintained. The only people who will foot the bill are the Middle Class, who have high incomes which the government can leech off.
You are funny Tesla, you dont understand how it is to be poor. Lets say for a moment that you lost your ability to work and learn when you was 15 because of an accident or whatever. Then when you was 30 you suddenly need a big operation to survive that costs $200.000 and treatment every year after that for $50.000. What would you do if you was in that situation?
I know first hand what it means to be poor. When I was growing up, there were days when we barely had food in the fridge, and my family was so poor we couldn't even pay for $30 field trips when I was in school. Yes, I have money now, but that is because I work hard, educate myself, and don't rely on the government. I save my money, and I stay out of debt. It is all about personal responsibility. I talked to a wealthy guy in the city where I live, and we exchanged books. He gave me a book called Think and Grow Rich, and I gave him a book called The Millionaire Mind. Successful people have a tendency to read and study, and they also work hard, and this is why they are successful. Most of the people I know never read. They don't study finance, they don't study economics, they don't understand banking, they don't read about technology, and then they sit around wondering why they can't get ahead. I've got an Uncle who is 40 something years old, has six kids, and is poor as dirt. He has been to prison, and his life is a wreck. All he ever does is ask for money. He asked me for $300 recently, but I told him I would not give it to him, because I would rather spend that money to advertise my online business. On top of this, My Uncle is in debt, and instead of paying the bill collectors, or setting up a payment plan, he dodges them. Instead, I offered him a BOOK on how to make money, and you know what he does? He insults me over the phone, and then hangs up? He talks about how he doesn't need a book, how a book won't do anything for him. It is people like this who are bottom feeders. They are so ignorant that you can talk to them for five minutes and tell they don't know jack about the world they live in. They don't know their face from their rear end, and then they wonder why they're poor. By the way, My Uncle is a smart guy, he has scored very high on tests, but like I said, he is poor because he chooses not to do anything with his life. Socialized Medicine only benefits people like this. Bottom feeders that look for handouts. This scenario you describe happens to less then 10% of the population. Of the people who are on welfare, only a small handful are paralyzed or have problems of that nature. Most of the people who are on welfare are those who just choose not to do anything with their lives. How do I know this? Because I know people in my life who are like this, many of them in my own family. They are not paralyzed or unable to work. They are ignorant and uneducated, they don't read, and then they look for handouts. This is why they are poor. For those who are blind, paralyzed, or truly in a situation where they can't take care of themselves, then, and ONLY then should they get help from the government. But again, as I said, the majority of people on welfare do not fall under either of these categories. By the way, I don't even have health insurance, and I still don't want socialized medicine. I save most of my money, because I understand that if you're healthy, eat right, avoid risky behaviors, and take care of yourself, if you save your money, by the time you hit 50 years of age, you should have so much in the bank that you don't even need to pay for health insurance. Think about it. Most people don't start having health problems until they get older. If you save money and invest while you're young, by the time you get old, you will have a huge nest egg, and you can literally pay for your health care out of your pocket. But again, doing this requires personal responsiblity, something that socialized healthcare doesn't encourage. It takes discipline and determination to save money, stay out of debt, and invest for your retirement. I do things the hard way. I never look for hand outs from no one, and I never even borrow money form anyone, because anything I want I can get on my own. That is what this country is built on. Don't misunderstand me. I feel compassion for people who are born blind, who are paralyzed, who are born with certain diseases. These people should receive all the help they can get, and I wouldn't mind putting up money for technologies to cure these people. But socialized medicine for everyone isn't the answer. The problem with socialized medicine is that it sounds good on paper. A few years ago, I would probably have agree that socialized medicine is good. But then I realized the agenda behind socialized medicine, and I understand why it is a ruse to institute socialist doctrines in the U.S.
10% is a lot of people. And I also know lazy people and I also know not lazy people that would be dead without socialized medicine. It also sounds very good in real life in numerous countries. Remember, we are talking about the system of socialized medicine in general. And not only specific to USA. Why do you think it work so well in many countries?
The biggest problem with socialized medicine is that it is based on socialism, and socialism has never worked. Every country that has tried it has largely failed. The USSR failed, the Chinese are even starting to look more to capitalism, because they know the older system can't work. The Jury is still out on whether or not it will work in other countries. Which countries do you think socialized medicine works well in? Do these nations have a strong Middle Class with individual liberties? You will probably say the European Union, but let me tell you, the EU is not what you think it is. The EU is just one step towards a centralized global government. Most Europeans are not happy about losing their national identity in favor of the EU. I talked to a woman in Germany who was telling me about their healthcare system, and I can tell you that I don't like it. The current healthcare system in the U.S. would work if we didn't have a bad monetary policy. The cause for the rising cost of healthcare is the same cause for the rising cost of food, energy, and housing: inflation. If we get inflation under control, we get the cost of healthcare under control. In the U.S., we can't even afford socialized healthcare. Americans are in more debt today than they've ever been, and I for one can't afford to pay more in taxes. The War in Iraq will run us what, $2 trillion? Then add this to the existing national debt, and then you want to put socialized medicine on top of all that? We will have an economic collapse.
Witch countries? Lets take social democracies like Sweden and Norway. The population is middle class almost all of them, very few poor and very few rich people, the economy is very liberal and capitalistic. In this countries, if the illness is possible to cure, you will be cured. You can call your doctor and you will be sent to a hospital to fix it. Sounds to good? well, its true. You dont hear people complaining a lot because the people see the benefits for themself and their family and friends. And please dont confuse socialized medicine with communism. Socialism as communism has never worked of course because communism is inhuman, but social democracy as a way of living has made some countries the richest countries in the world.
LOL. welcome to Internet and the land of 5 minutes experts through wiki. I like you but you honestly beginning to sound like little willy. Do you remember how he thinks he is a general because he has found couple of military quotes on Internet? You have taken a sentence from wiki and then started to build your fantasy story which has nothing to do with reality. The subject is much more complicated than 1 line in wiki. But we don't need to discuss socialism since your post has nothing to do with it. You have built your discussion on 2 main points which is part of old American culture and way of thinking but it was never a reality and it is not a reality now. 1) Every man for himself and should be strong and manage his own affairs. Therefore tax is bad. 2) Private is always better and everything managed by government is bad. Let's accept your reasoning but why should we stop only at medicine? How about defense? Why should we pay for military and defend the poor who don't pay? Isn't better to have a private company that we can pay which only defends our house when the enemy attacks? How about police? Why should we care about murder, robbery or homicide in ghettos and pay for police? Shouldn't we have private police that only protects us and let poor people kill each other? How about fire fighters and fire department? Why should we have to pay tax to have them when we can use the tax money to put good sprinkle systems in our home? Why should we have government and president when we can hire a private company to act as president? Who knows, may be the guy that we hire even knows the difference between Austria and Australia, unlike the real president? Are you going to work hard enough to make your own roads, your own police, fire department and private army? If you and your neighbor by any chance don't agree on the foreign policy, you can hire 2 different companies to make treaties with other countries. Can you see how crazy your basic assumptions are when they are taken to it's ultimate conclusions?
This is ridiculous. No one ever said that everything had to be privatized, you are taking my posts out of context. The U.S. Constitution makes it clear what the government can and cannot do, and it makes it clear that socialized medicine is something the government CAN"T do. Please go to Wiki and read the 10th Amendment of the Constitution. Ron Paul makes a good point about how 911 may have went down differently had private airline companies allowed their pilots and passengers to carry guns. You see, when you let the government run everything, it fails, and the same can be said of medicine. The problem with your post is that you don't know your history. I know more about socialism than you do. I know who founded it, and what its ultimate goal is. It is the opposite of fascism, but leads to the same ends, the destruction of America. Whats so complicated about it? The definition speaks for itself, and we've already seen socialism in action throughout history, it fails. The funny thing about your posts is that you've failed each time to explain why I'm wrong. The only thing you've done is attack my view point without providing a shred of evidence to back up why socialized medicine is a good thing. If you're going to debate someone, you should explain why you're right and they're wrong. So far, you've provided nothing to support either socialized medicine or socialism. What works in Norway and Sweden can't work in the U.S. Different culture, different history. The U.S. has tried to impose American ways on the Middle East, and we see how well that is going. American law forbids the government from deciding on the issue of socialized medicine. Our Constitution, the Tenth Amendment, makes it crystal clear that any issue not mentioned in the Constitution must be decided by the states. Norway and Sweden apparently don't have such a Constitutional Amendment, and once they are made part of the EU, they will lose all the national identity they have. The Tenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is quoted here for those of you who have never heard of it: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. This means that Hillary, even if elected as president, is not allowed to make a decision on socialized medicine. America became number one without a "social democracy." So many things were invented here like the Internet and Airplanes. The reason for that was not because of socialism, it was because of liberty and a true free market where the government backed off.
Tesla, you keep saying socialism has never asked but you failed to answer my question: Why do some of the European socialist healthcare systems work so well?
I hardly doubt that he said that but if he did, then he is an idiot. Did you even think what happens when people start shooting in the airplane in the air? Let me give you a hint, it makes hole in the body of the airplane, care to guess what happens next? The police officers who protect the planes in Canada, are extremely trained individuals that can shoot with surgical precision and even those people have to think twice before using their gun. I was never afraid of flying because of terrorists but if one day, every tom, dick and harry can carry a gun inside a plane that will be the day that I will never fly again. Anybody who has read your post and knows about the subject, can quite easily see that you know nothing about it with exception of your own fantasies. There are many things that are not mentioned directly in Constitution but it doesn't mean that we should deregulate everything. The tenth Amendment regulates the relation between federal government and state but I fail to see how you make up the rest of your post based on that Amendment. I think you were so concerned with people coming to get your money that you forgot what is really important in Constitution. Unless you claim that Constitution meant the general welfare of mountains and rivers, I think they meant the people of USA and dying of a curable sickness because you are poor, certainly is not welfare or justice.
Ooops, USA is not close to be the richest country in the world. (By the way, "America" is not a country, its a continent).