Do you agree that the two Arab areas commonly referred to as "Palestian" areas can be handled separately? Fatah seems ready to accept peace in the West Bank. They have outlawed Hamas and the situation looks very positive. The Hamas charter, on the other hand, calls for the destruction of Israel. They are not close to accepting peace. I believe that you are completely wrong, but also that it may not matter that you are wrong. We may be able to get a "little" peace -- a peace just for the West Bank. But those other Arab countries... the Palestinians mean nothing to them. If they did, those countries would have unilaterally resettled the Palestinian Arab long ago. Instead, the Palestinians are just pawns to those people, to be used to drive hatred towards Israel and solidify their grips of dictatorship on their own subjects. However, it is still positive to gain a little peace, even if overall peace with the Arabs is not a possibility. To which point are you referring? I believe you are way off on that assumption. That assumption is largely driven by Western media, but it does not have it's roots in the Qua'ranic demands to establish dominion over all other religions. Ask yourself this: If Israel makes peace with Fatah and Hamas, will Osama bin Laden be at peace? Will the Iranians? Unfortunately, the answer to both questions is no. The Arab Palestinians are only a very tiny portion of the picture. However, again, even a little peace is better than none. Where would you build these apartment complexes? We have a phrase in English "gilded cage", which means that you are imprisoned in a beautiful cage -- but that you are still imprisoned. People don't want to be imprisoned -- no matter how nice the prison is. I do not believe that luxury highrise apartments will make the Palestinian Arabs happy. What they really need is freedom. Did you see how little aid the Arab countries gave to Indonesia after the earthquake and tsunami? If your plan is to succeed, it must be funded, as per usual, from the pockets of the American taxpater.
Let's spend a bit more time on these. Let's drop our prejudices and do some out-of-the-box thinking. Personally, I am rather fond of this one. It seems pretty *&^%$#%^&*&^%$# easy to implement. However, it's completely unreasonable because it requires a massive cultural shift on the part of the culture that we have no control over. This one is OBL's plan, although he appears to have bitten off more than he can chew in his lifetime. This one is Iran's plan, and can be implemented when Iran able to obtain nuclear weapons. At that point, it also won't seem so unreasonable. Iran will simply present the Jews with an ultimatum that says "You have 7 days to begin the evacuation of Israel or we will nuke you. Have a nice day." The Israeli's will be forced to comply. I really see this one as the most likely medium-term solution for peace. It doesn't fulfill the requirements of OBL's greater Qua'ranic vision for peace, but it will buy the West a few more decades of relative peace. Let's be reasonable, the population of Israel is only about 6 million. That's ONE American city. We can absorb the entire Jewish nation. Look at the GDP of $170B that these poor bastards have built from almost nothing under incredibly hostile circumstances! We would be lucky to get these guys to join our country. They won't be safe from terrorism here. We know that the Iranians have organized attacks on Jews as far away as South America -- but they will be safer than where they are. Unfortunately, the Israeli's are not yet emotionally ready for this. Ahmadinejad is working hard to change their minds.
it is more fun isn't it? agreed that the killing must stop.that is the whole point. and i agree that a complete change of the attitude needed. i would like to give 10 years for this here is the hard part as to how we can keep them seperated till their wounds heal a little. we have to talk about this as it is not easy. obl represent a very small minority of muslems. if the palestanians agree to our peace plan he will lose a lot of his support. any way i do not want him to stop the world. any comprehensive peace will reduce the iranian powers any way i have a continuation plan on how to deal with iran. now i chose this post to answer first as i have to disagree with you on some things in the next post please read them carefully since they are way out of the box.
Hey, we Nazi's are all about fun! He doesn't want to stop the world. He just wants to turn the clock back 1,300 years -- back to the "good old days!" Let's see what you've got! You'll seldom find a tougher audience than me! You can't! No one can disagree with me! Ich bin ein Fuhrer! Hey, if the lefties are going to call me a Nazi, I might as well ham it up. (Ha ha -- I said "ham" in a top about the Middle East!)
it looks like that, maybe even some of their leaders. that is how it seems from outside. but the arab people and in general most moslems want a resolution here knowing this i think israel knows that it is her moral responsibility to make sure that these people can survive. it is also to her benefit. well lets take a look a dictator that doesn't seem to be able to do much for his people a population that sees him as a friend of us a population that sees him unable to do nothing for palesanians all of a sudden able to produce peace for palestanian will give him a lot of powe and popularity among his people [win for dictator, win for west as heis a friend and this would stabilize him win for israel because he can be persuaded to contribute more money. there are a lot of them around there here is where i disagree with you. the only thing that palastanians bring to the table is peace and a promise of stop all hostility. abbas can not give that to isael israel must insist that all the palastanian group agree to the peace before giving an inch. to get this agreement which is the only thing israel wantsshe must insist that the hamas and the other group be involved as soon as possible. if this peace to succeed then the israeli parties are asol must be involved maybe each side can have them included in advisery role outside of the actual negotiations but they must agree to the result for it to be worth the risk for israel mostly a peace bet palestanian and israel will weaken them more than any bombing as i said iranian situation has a solution OBL is not in my equation we have to find a solution these apartment should be built all over the palastanian designated area. there are palastanians that live in deplorable conditions i think they will be happy about moving to better neighborhood of course you can not satisfy every one but a solid majority would do palestanians already have a two party system and hopefully they can get it to a good govt but tha is their problem. another reason why srael would want hamas involved is this and also fatah is what fatah is you know i said a few months ago that there is going to be peace in ME and i am sure it is people have to make sure it is done right and quick
That gives Hamas all of the power, because they have no interest in peace. That holds up peace for the West Bank, which would be enormously valuable for it's citizens. Effectively that enables Hamas to hold the people of the West Bank as virtual hostages. Israel is not such a worry on this point as they are a Democracy and are very familiar with popular referendums to decide important issues. So, in the "West Bank" and in the "Gaza Strip." I am fairly optimistic regarding the West Bank. I think you're nuts about Gaza. Of course, I have long had a radically different idea. If I were President of Israel, I would meet with the President of Egypt. I would give him a large bag of money and Gaza and tell him that he couldn't have the bag of money unless he kept Gaza too.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7038808.stm hamas already knows that if they stand infront of peace know they are alone no one will support them but if they play ball then they will have a lot of power in the future. any how in a little while they will show that they are ready these apartment should be built on all public land in gaza and wb the point of involving israeli parties is to have a good solid agreement that everyone can support you know what is sad is nobody wants to support either one in peace only in war, heck nobody even wants to talk about it
Except for their private financiers in Saudi Arabia and their public financiers and weapons dealers in Iran... ...if they play ball then they will have a lot of power in the future. [/quote] It does appear that they are afraid that Israel and Fatah will strike a peace deal, which will reduce their power and make them almost irrelevant. If they can get involved, they can screw up the deal -- thus preserving their power.
i think at ths time saudis want peace more than any one. iran is a diffrent story It does appear that they are afraid that Israel and Fatah will strike a peace deal, which will reduce their power and make them almost irrelevant. If they can get involved, they can screw up the deal -- thus preserving their power.[/QUOTE] only time will tell i agree that we can let this decision wait for a while maybe we will see something take a quick look at bbc page and you can also find the charle rose program with the amir of somewhere you will see that maybe they are not as hard as they seem now i like to give you my favorite example.if you think about it it brings a lot of hope. israel has a good relationship with germany jewish people feel safe in germany.so i'll say they have a big heart and they make a good example here they are both good people just victim of the circumstances edit: belive me there is already an agreement about the map so there is nothing hamas can do and again it is in their benefit to agree to peace. now they are the ruler of nothing. they can be a party in a much bigger country.
The Hamas boys took Abbas's cook, tied him up, and tossed him off a 15 story building for fun. Circumstances? Hmmm...
there is no need for trust or like to make peace as a matter of fact the only qualification for making peace is being at war.and war is ugly. i just hope some other people can add their opinions but it seems every one is scared of peace
Nah... everyone is scared of this topic because they are afraid of being permabanned for violating the new rules.
no i had the other tread up before that some people showed up but with the exception of toopac it was never involved by either side. every one is supporting a war to the end as i said before rules are easy just be polite imagine you are in a funeral home any how just imagine the result from a brainstorm of dp members rather than bickering
You told me to visit this thread and I did, you still are trying to say people were pushing for war and you are totally wrong. Those people, like me, you accuse of this are all for peace. We weren't talking solutions on the other thread we were just talking facts. Some of those facts make the solutions you put up void. You see, you first have to understand the mindset of a very large culture that is involved in the wars. This culture hates a group of people and calls them things like snakes and pigs (just like the nazis did/do) and they want this group dead at all costs, using any excuses, and can lie to anyone about it. If you want to talk in a fairy tale world, we can come up with many peace plans. If you want to talk real life, you will see no matter what peace plan we bring to the table, with exception of Will's list, they will either not even look at or if they accepted one of them, it would still fail. I am not being negative, I am merely being realistic. How many peace agreements can you make with a person who would sign them with his fingers crossed. Never planning on following through, but merely using it as a time to let someone's guard down in order to have a more affective attack. Please read what I wrote and try not to make it sound like something I didn't say, I hate it when someone twists my words.
supporting war and not supporting peace is the same thing in my book i am going to bring up a couple of things again you do not need trust to make peace you can only make peace with the people that you are at war with and that means that they want to kill you and you want them destroyed. it is not a fairy tale. US and the Quartet want to make this happen. blair is working on it. Dr rice is trying to make a go at it, and thinks there is still a chance. so may be if every person that wants peace for israel can support the peace and that also goes for the palestanians and arabs the reality is that since israel will not kill all the palestanians, and they have to live side by side, peace is the only solution good to remember it has worked with jordan and egypt now if you have any other solution as to what israel can do to finish this situation please post.
I am all for peace, so please don't say otherwise, I am not one who is fighting against peace. OK, give you an example. Say you are in high school and the school bully picks on you everyday. Either hitting you, giving you swirlies, breaking your arm, etc.. and then you sometimes hit him back. Now you say lets make peace......... Great, hope it works.
what do you suggest its your turn to beat him up. this is what i mean as against peace. some times people get tired of war and then they make peace. as simple as that. this have been going on for half a century i think majority of both side are tired of it. lets support it as much as we can