they will also get involve once they see peace is going forward rather than sitting it out all the more militant forces will lose their power once peace get hold they all will object to peace and we must make sure that they can not derail the peace process [/QUOTE] there is no need for trust to make peace that will come later. peace will resolve all of these condition. nothing else will
So I am a bad guy for saying that Israel should not be attacked and destroyed by it's neighbors? And arguing that continual attacks and invasions of Israel are a good thing would make me a good guy? If standing up for a peoples right to their very existence makes me a bad guy, then so be it. I know that some people want Israel to be "wiped off the map", but to me this is not an acceptable part of any potential "peace" solution.
i just picked that post at random to get your attention the people of middle east are at war with each other and if they do not like that the solution is simple peace why cant we the thousand member of dp support peace and try to find solution for their diffrences rather than try to rejuvinete this fire in every chance that we get?
same thing that i told the other guy they are at war with each other if they do not like it the solution is simple make peace
'ya lost me here. Most of the peace proposals on the table involve Israel giving up parts of Israel to the Arabs. OK, not problem -- theoretically. The trouble is that these areas will put heavily armed terrorists into easy reach of Israeli homes, schools, hospitals, and synagogues. That, to me, requires a certain degree of trust. What am I missing?
let me put a question for you two can you come up with a solution to right of return issues. this seems to be the biggest Obsticale to peace. it is a very important to israel as allowing it could change the balance in their country and also it is important to palestanians since they have refugees all over the world.
Nope, you're bad guy because of your posts about Islam and Muslims. I can read and I did read what you posts here. Where did I said that attacks and invasions of Israel is good thing? YOu should try to stop putting words in peoples mouth for a change and talk about facts. Put your fiction aside. Once I catch some time I will quote all your "love" posts about Muslims which are far away from "standing up for a peoples right to their very existence" There's only one man that wants that and as I can see most of the world trying to stop him so stop pretending that you are only one on planet Earth that knows where's real problem for Israel.
it is always like this when two group of people are at war they fear and dislike each other. it is normal. they also kill each other also normal. then they get tired also normal. when they make peace they are actually saying that i am going to take a chance to stop the hostilities as long as this stoppage in hostility is verifiable and enforcable there is no need for trust or like. these are by product of peace.
You're being silly again. I just searched this whole thread and I have not used the word Islam even once. I only used the word "Muslim" to ask you if you were a Muslim. But I'm a Nazi for supporting the rights of the Israeli's to survive. If that's what a Nazi is these days, perhaps I'll stop denying your accusations.
Ah... there's the rub. How can this stoppage be verifiable and enforceable? Haven't these verification and enforcement processes failed repetitively in the past?
again this arguments that you present is for a continuation of hostility. we all know what the result of these hostilities are, and i hope none of us like it. so what is the solution but peace? i do not understand how any one objects to what goes on in time of war and can't support peace?
I agree. Unfortunately, some people will never be happy as long as a Jew still draws breath. And yet I'm a "Nazi" for supporting a peace that lets both Arabs and Jews survive.
Where did I said you said something against Islam and Muslims in this thread? Again, try to stop putting words in peoples mouth for a change. So, your posts outside this thread doesn't count now huh? You're different person in every new thread? Interesting but no worries, when I get time I'll quote all your "love" posts.
if a solution is put forward for the population of israel and palestanian area that is fair to all people and is ultimatly put to a vote and is approved by majority of people involved then this can be varifiable and enforcable. maybe a combination of israeli and arab forces can protect the borders may be a UN force can do it for a while. may be the wall can stay for a few years maybe a small us force can supervise a israeli/arab force. i was watching the emir of arab emirate in PBS and he was suggesting that the only non resolved situation is the right of return. he asked the world to try to comeup with a solution to this problem.
again you are trying to give an excuse for opposition to peace. can you support a peace that is approved by the majority of the palestanian people?
And exactly how I am doing that?!? By saying that's Will's posting about Islam and Muslims reminds me on nazis and their philosophy?!? Can you find any of my posts that says diferent? Where exactly I supported war?
That's a big sentence. Let me try to break it down into it's components. "population of israel and palestanian area" That's the first problem. The "Palestinians" are just one small group of Arabs. Any solution is going to have to be signed off by the entire OIC. "that is fair to all people" That's been the problem for years. There are some places that are desired by more than one group of people. Yeah, I know it's crazy to get that worked up over dirt and old buildings, but... the Jews are still pretty hurt that they were banned from even visiting the Western Wall and the Old City of Jerusalem before they recaptured them during the Six Day War. "and is ultimatly put to a vote and is approved by majority of people" That may be the biggest problem of all. Very few OIC countries are democracies. Moreover, many of the ones that do vote do not vest significant power in their elected leaders. The real power is still held by a select few clerics. "involved then this can be varifiable and enforcable." 'ya lost me again. Nothing in the above makes any potential agreement more verifiable or enforceable. That's a pretty simplified view. There are a large number of ethnic and religious groups that claim the same sections of land. Or did you mean "right of return" only for one group and all other groups can go spit? Do the Moors get Spain back? There are plenty of solutions, but few very people seem interested in them. Heck, the easiest solution would be to let the borders stay where they are and allow people to move as individuals. The Arabs living in camps could easily integrate into the populations of Egypt and Jordan. Heck, it wasn't that long ago that these nation-states didn't exist and these silly lines didn't matter. But let me close with this: Any peace which allows both peoples to live in freedom is a good peace.
ok now it seems that both of you accept the fact that only best solution is peace so instead of trying to point out why it can not be done i propse a new format for the discussion and maybe other people can join in here is an example of what i feel is a very productive way if xxxxx was done i think it would help the aaaa people to accept yyyy for the bbbb people i hope you get my point.
Here are the proposals I've seen so far: From the Arab side: If the Jews would all convert to Islam or submit to rule by an Islamic Caliph and pay Jizyah for his protection, this would help the Arab people accept peace with the Jews. If the Jews would all move to Alaska, we would not see an immediate need to kill them. (I propose Arizona instead!) If the Jews would all commit suicide, then there would be peace. From the Israeli side: If the Arabs would please quit murdering us, then there would be peace. I'll try to come up with something better when I get back from the pharmacy.
arab league has a proposal on the table for a comprehensive peace and israel has not rejected it so that can be used as a starting point i have put a solution for jeruselum in the other tread if that is what you mean the only place that really need to take the vote is in paleatanian area. the arab countries at this point are ruled by dictators and they will come in line if the palestanians agree, as they are more concerned about the iranian infulence than israel. again i rcommended a few solution but it is good to remember that for a while they did cooperate with each other. i meant the right of return by palestanians as it is the hardest thing to resolve for both parties this solution is not going to work i was thinking of making apartment complexes that could house these people to the final area that would be designated as palestanians these apartments can be built with donations fromn arab countries and the rest of the world. if israel contribute some money it might go a long way also