You are arguing with the wrong person, I was just turning around the scenerio of Briants. There are rich on both ends politically, if not they wouldn't be in politics, it isn't a place for poor to compete. I just get tired of the crap. Liberals seem to constantly point at the right and say "boo-hoo you are rich and don't know what it is like to be poor" but many of those liberals seem to actually be middle class and they themselves have never worn shoes with holes in them or had to wonder where the next meal will come from. I also can care less about expesive items like watches, in fact I don't even currently wear a watch and if I buy another it won't be expensive or flashy. I also know people with money that don't own anything that expensive, that is why they have money, because they think before they buy. I may not have much money, but for raising 6 kids on one income, I think we do OK. We have a nice house - for sale if anyone wants a big house in southern Oregon. Our two cars are paid for - both vans right now. We don't currently own any RV's etc, but they aren't a necessity and we currently shouldn't afford them.
Any of you who are truly interested in what it means to be a self made millionaire in the U.S. should check out a book called the Millionaire Next Door:http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-N...9093762?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192218493&sr=8-1 I purchased this book a few years ago, and it has changed my life. I've read it more times than I can count, and the one thing I've learned is that being rich is not about buying private jets, boats, bling, and all that stuff. A lot of millionaires are people you wouldn't even expect. They shop at thrift stores, and don't even wear expensive clothes. I'm not really jealous of those guys who buy $11,000 watches, because I know that they are slaves to the objects they own. Personally, my goal is to be financially independent, not rich. Financial Independence equals freedom, to get out of the rat race. Thats what it is about. This society pisses me off, because they try to brainwash us into thinking that we're nothing if we don't have a Rolex, or a private jet, or a brioni suit, or a Franck Mueller watch............f*ck all that, that is just "stuff." In the end, it is all about being free to do what you want, not having to worry about money. I don't bother trying to keep up with the joneses. Trying to keep up with the joneses means you must by a new car every year, since new models come out every year. You also need to keep up with the latest gadgets, clothing fashions, and in the end, it only makes the people who sell the products rich, and all you have is stuff that depreciates in value.
When it comes to the economy, I try to avoid taking sides. What you're saying about the liberals is true. Basically, Hillary, Obama, Edwards and the rest of them want to create a welfare state where the government babies you. To a lot of libs, that sounds good, but they don't understand the true agenda. The thing people don't get about a welfare state is that you will lose your freedoms. Don't think you can just rely on the government for everything, and then think you'll be free, because it doesn't work like that. When you're dependent on something, you're a slave to them. This doesn't mean I think all liberals are bad, but this is what the top liberals/democrats want, and it will hurt America. Now the Republicans/Neocons are on the opposite side of the coin, but the stuff they do pisses me off just as much. They give tax breaks and special advantages to the rich and large corporations, and they seem quick to create partnerships with corporations which are detrimental to the U.S. When you think about it, both sides lead to the same end, which is the end of America, and the end of our freedoms. This problem isn't just liberals, it is both political parties. This is precisely what I want to vote for a real conservative like Ron Paul, who truly sees the system for what it is. This country isn't going to go anywhere until we stop pointing the fingers at republicans or democrats, and start focusing on freedom versus slavery, because that is basically the only two choices we have.
There you go again with that liberal/conservative talk. Neocons think people what are old-school conservatives like Ron Paul are radicals. They are not really conservative. The liberals you talk about are much more like George Bush than you want to think. Paris Hilton, Al Gore, George Bush--three peas in a pod. Except Paris isn't quite as dangerous. So you are right about the rich on both ends. That's why they play these games. Clinton, Giuliani, Obama, Romney--who among them will serve anyone but the current power structure? The irritating thing is how many people still play democrats vs republicans. It's a sham people. Have you not heard of Clinton and Obama's talk of troops being in Iraq until 2013. And if you think Bush is some small-government conservative, you are kidding yourself.
Seriously. Hillary voted for the war in Iraq, she has talked about attacking Iran, her and Rupert Murdoch are best buddies, and he is backing her election.....the entire game is completely rigged. The sooner Americans figure out the two party system, the better of the country will be. Ron Paul is an anomaly to these people. It shows how far we've come from the founding principles of the Constitution. Ron Paul is the personification of the founding fathers. Listening to him is like listening to George Washington or Andrew Jackson, minus their feelings on slavery and thoughts towards Native Americans. People don't even realize that...or maybe they do, but are frightened by what they hear. Our economy is in a lot of trouble. I've owned Gtech and the gang so many times on the economy that it really exhausts me. There is literally a mountain of evidence which shows the U.S. is in an economic decline. Gtech tries to downplay the study of this thread, but I've seen so many articles just like this. THE FED said itself that Americans have a negative savings rate, the lowest since 1933. I read the article myself in black and white. Here is the intel I've got on Americans spending habits. 1. I actually read a PDF document from the fed. 25% of the poorest Americans have a negative net worth. 2. The average American supposedly has a net worth of $95,000. Not bad right? Well, it is when you consider the fact that most of that $95,000 includes their home! 3. The average American has about $12,000 in credit card debt. 4. The average American college student has $19,000 in student loans. 5. We've lost millions of jobs due to outsourcing since 2000. 6. Illegals are driving down the wages. 7. We have a negative savings rate. This info comes from none other than the Fed. 8. Our inflation rate is actually 13%. The government says 2%, but they are liars...they don't include food, energy, or housing into the equation. 9. 41 million Americans can't afford the basics.
Now I wanted to talk a bit about the 41 million Americans. When you actually think about it, this is a fantastic number. We've got over 300 million people in this nation, so with 41 million not even being able to afford the basics, that is almost a quarter of our entire population! Actually I exaggerated. It is a little under 15%, but this is still pretty bad. Now, this study doesn't include the "pay check to paycheck" crowd, who "can" make ends meet, but have no money left over after the bills are paid. This study also doesn't include the homeless. There are an estimated 3.5 million homeless in the country. So when you think about it, about 5% of the U.S. population, the richest, control at least 48% of the total wealth. Ideally, the U.S. economy should be shaped like a diamond. We should have a large middle class, which make up at least 50% of the population, and we should have a small percentage of poor people and rich people. This is the ideal society, the way the founding fathers would have wanted it. With the Middle Class controlling much of the wealth, the nation would be dynamic, powerful, and people from the lower classes, could work their way up to the Middle Class, or to become Rich. In reality, the American economy is actually shaped like a triangle. A triangle is a bad shape for an economy. Why? Because the triangle only allows a few people to sit on the top, while everyone else is beneath them. With a triangle shaped economy, the Middle Class has been crushed, or does not exist. You have a tiny elite that sits at the very top, and a mass of serfs that support them. Every third world country has an economy shaped like a triangle. Diamond shaped economies are the most powerful, dynamic, and free. In the ideal society, the Middle Class should make up 50% of the population, and they should control 50% of the wealth. The working class or poor should control another 25% and the rich should control the remaining 25%. This would be the ideal society. Unfortunately, in the America we live in today, the rich control 50% of the wealth, and the other half is shared between the Middle Class, Working Class, and Poor, and it is getting worse. I theorize that once the rich control more than 60% of the total U.S. wealth, the Middle Class will cease to exist, and America will become a second or third world nation.
From your lips to my ears. It's how I live my life. I have zero debt, I spend less than I earn, and I live a simple but full life. We could solve a lot of problems if people turned off their TVs and read a book. Maybe some American history, and not about the wars, but about the founding of this country, and the words of our greatest leaders.
You're absolutely right, you've hit the nail on top of the head with that one. Hardly anyone reads a book these days. My uncle insulted me when I offered to send him a book in the mail, saying "what is a book gonna do for me" I don't need no book." He is having financially difficulties, always asking people to loan him money, so I offered to buy and send him a book in the mail called "America's Cheapest Family," the story of a family of seven who lives on $35,000 per year, and they have no debt:http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Chea...9093762?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192264942&sr=8-1 Yeah, he is broke as hell with like 6 kids dodging bill collectors. A book like this would probably help him out a lot. The reality is Americans have been brainwashed to be idiots. I only know a few people in my life that read on a consistent basis. My Uncle is a good example of the typical American. They think they know it all, but in reality, they don't know anything. Just like that stupid beauty pageant chick who was asked about 1/5 Americans not knowing where the U.S. on a map, and then she starts talking about how America needs to help other nations, which had nothing to do with the question she was asked...........Americans really are idiots. My brother told me the capital of Bangkok is China, he thinks Iran was behind 911, I know a college student who told me 911 happened in 2002.............the stories you hear about Americans being idiots are true...........if you guys don't believe, just ask your friends, neighbors, or people on the street basic questions, and watch the answers you get. I don't even have many friends, because so many people are idiots, you can't even carry on a conversation with them. Books pack a lot of power. I mean, you hear about guys like Abraham Lincoln or George Washington Carver walking for miles and being so proud just to go to school to read. Hundreds of years ago, books could only be afforded by the rich. Today, books are cheaper than ever before, but it doesn't matter since the general public doesn't read. Check out this thread I started a while back about 1/4 Americans not reading on book last year. Read how defensive many people in the thread become:http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=446663 The wealthy people read. I read a book by Donald Trump, and he makes it clear that he reads for at least three hours per day. When you don't understand the world around you, how in the hell can you make it in business or education..........you can't. Every person I know who doesn't read on a consistent basis isn't doing well in life. They work at dead end jobs, have no serious money, and not much of a future. I can talk to people like Gtech, lorien, and mia, and I can tell they don't read, especially on history. If they did, they would understand all the stuff I'm talking about, and they wouldn't be trying to make it appear as if everything is alright with the country.
A currency backed by gold will still have inflation, a free flowing currency not pegged to any commodity is more efficient long term. Also inflation if controlled is good, otherwise you risk the issue of deflation. Our own government is not about to go bankrupt, we have 115 trillion dollars of assets in the United States which produce a return of about 13% per year. So what if we sell china bonds at 4% and reinvest them money and get a better return. Business do it all the time. Correct the dollar stopped flowing because of deflation no one wanted to write a contract and borrow someone money only for them to repay it with half the money later on. Also you couldn’t grow your way of the economic deflation because everyone America had shut its market down to imports and other countries did the same. The average hourly wage in the United States is 18.84 an hour why bake in the sun for 8 hours a day when you can go and do something else for the same pay? Also on the other end, because of illegal immigrants it means the goods that you buy are cheaper which keeps inflation down which keeps interest rates down which helps the economy grow and helps raise the average American standard of living.
It's not as straight line as that. There is a social welfare cost to absorbing immigrants and their families, providing them with medical care and other social benefits. This increases the burden on the average American, and compromises their standard of living. Ron Paul has it right, in that when we get all of the Americans working, then we can and will probably need immigrant labor to fill shortfalls in the economy. But as long as there is a social welfare state, Many Americans without education or opportunities will not work, and those jobs will go to immigrants, growing the lower class.
You must be kidding me, is there a social welfare state? Welfare in Canada is much better than USA and hardly anyone can survive on it. There are fundamental problems in economy and government; and instead of dealing with issues, they blame it on weakest part of society which actually most suffer from it. In 21st century and with all our advances and resources, there should never be a question that any HUMAN being should be guaranteed the basic for survival such as food, shelter and medicine. It is simply not acceptable that people should die from hunger, cold or lack of medicine.
To a point I will agree with you, how it's handled in the states though is a joke. Another example. 2 people I know, both can work but do not. She has been abusing the system with the help of her mother for years. Getting SS simply because her mom married someone who died a few months later, this person also didn't work and was on SS. She then lived seperate from her mother but lied in order to continue to get this SS she should have never gotten in the first place. Now she is married with a child, neither her or her husband work. They get food stamps, they get rent paid for, health and much more. Housing 'HUD' will not allow these people to get free rent at places where other individuals pay out as they do not pass the test. These people abusing the system, not working even though they fully are capable will get better housing than the couple busting their asses off and simply can not afford a better place. Aid to those who actually need it I would be willing to support, aid to those who abuse the system which is much higher than any study would like you to think I will not support.
well this thread is too and long and filled with ron paul nonsense for me to actually read, but in response to gworlds post were are these people who can't afford food and shelter? I lived most of adult life in lower income areas, and have yet to see anyone starve, and most homeless I have met have either been mentally ill, or strung out on drugs. If you go to a affordable housing complex in miami, the parking lot is full of cars and suvs that cost more them my truck, everyone has designer clothes and cell phones, and watches cable
lol, well fuck them. If you are stupid enough and greedy enough to run up credit cards, you deserve whatever you get, they signed up for it I did it when I was younger, not even on purpose, my girlfriend never paid the bill, and I of course got stuck with the charges, lesson learned. Never trust a woman with your credit card.
That's what always happens in a welfare state. The central economic planning of the government cannot provide adequately for everyone. The reality is that perfection is a myth. There will always be someone sick, there will always be someone poorer than someone else. The Russians proved that social welfare and empire leads to bankruptcy. I'm not blaming the "people". I'm blaming the government. It's not their job to intervene in the market place, tax and then decide how and what services to provide, and in what amount. The blame on the people lies in allowing government to grow so big, so inefficient and so pervasive, that we now look to the center of power for health. We look to them for how much money we can keep from the fruits of our labor. We look to them to educate our children, with the idea that they know best how to teach them. Basically, the fault of the people (and it's not just the lower stratosphere, perhaps much less so) is apathy and laziness. Pay your taxes, government will take care of you. More time for Dancing with the Stars. That's absolutely true. However, the people at the top of the food chain, who issue the money get to charge interest to everyone who uses it below them. It's called a transfer of wealth. Prior to the income tax, schools were run by charities and churches. Charity hospitals were common. Doctors would charge patients based on what they could afford to pay. What we have, is uniform anti-free market pricing, particularly in Canada (NOT an attack on your country) where one size of health care fits all. That's the problem with socialized medicine in the US. The government has already shown a tremendous lack of character and discipline when dealing with industry and lobbyists. This is because government should never be sourcing these services in the first place. Lobbyists used to be called salesmen, and they would try to offer YOU the incentive to buy their product or use their service. Instead, the lobbyists favor the government, then pass on the costs of lobbying to the consumer, via government made law and regulation, which is ultimately reflected in your taxes. Government employees are "civil servants". How many government employees have platinum state pensions, health care and greater than median wages? Theoretically, they work for you. You pay their wage. How many of us would pay our employees more than ourselves? How many of us would provide greater benefits than we would strive for ourselves? When government establishes the right to tax (and to spend into debt) coercion is the next logical step. Coercion by providing services that you could as easily acquire on the open market. You pay one tax rate, you get one service level. If they provide better service to group A than B then this is inequity. But it's a man made inequity and because it is law, very hard to overcome. Alternately, if service is absolutely equal, without regard for demand, then this is communism. Government exists to protect freedom and individual rights. That's the notion behind the American Republic. Not to favor groups, not to favor corporations, and not to create burdens on the people. Ron Paul recently said something to the effect that "government cannot legislate virtue". And he is correct. I don't trust Stephen Harper, George Bush or Nancy Pelosi to tell me what is right or wrong, or how I should live my life. As long as I do not hurt anyone else, I should be able to pursue my own path through life. At least in Canada, you have strong Provincial governments. The systems between our countries ended up the opposite of how they were intended. The States in the US are weaker than the federal government, and the Provinces are as, if not more powerful than the Federal one. Of course, because they didn't earn the money to subsidize their lifestyle in the first place, so there is no sense of personal accountability and financial management, which leads to jumping into debt to add more personal (temporary) wealth that is unearned. The entire notion of socialized government is that we are incapable of, perhaps too dumb or simple to manage our own lives, and only bureaucracy and government can provide guidance. Not God, not our moral compasses, but someone else.
Why the mentally ill should be homeless? Isn't this our duty as society to take care of mentally ill? The other question is why do you people believe in these myth as you post? In Vancouver we pay about $500 /month to a single person on welfare. The minimum rent for one room is higher than that. How much do they pay for welfare in Florida? Do you have the numbers? Let's look at numbers and you most likely will see that a person can not even live on it, let alone buy an expensive car.
The question is, do you believe people should perform their duties from their hearts, or because it is law? If you don't believe that people will take care (as best they can, and IMO, not much less effectively than government), then you have a very pessimistic view of the human spirit. My family recently had a major medical situation. I gave everything I had liquid, and continue to give. As did the remainder of my family, the wealthy, the modest of wealth and the poor. No one told us we had to do it. No one tells people to volunteer at soup kitchens, for human rights organizations or the Red Cross. No one forces us to give to Unicef, hand out candy at Halloween, or hold the door open for other people. When we defer our morality to the government, we're just drones. It has to come from our hearts, and you can't make those equal, just as we can't make anything else human perfectly equal.
Not to forget we ourselves have less to give to charity, to help those in need as we have already been forced to.
Exactly. In fact, we are really wasteful, because we pay for the middleman (government) to spread our virtue. And bureaucrats are some of the best paid citizens with the lowest chance of being fired or held accountable for poor performance.