Empowerment and Exploitation

Most of the work we are doing is in South Africa but I started this project in Bangkok and we still have one girl there who is plugging away at Submissions. So yes what we are doing is very relevant to developing countries. But does this limit our scope? Not at all. We want to get to the stage where we are "marketing" a broad spectrum of services from the most simple, mundane and amateurish to top end graphics and web development. We believe we will get the exposure that will make it happen and that's why I have gone on record saying that our bare bones directories offer genuine web masters huge long term value. Its also why we believe professionals within this industry and on the web in general have an incentive to get involved and help us achieve whatever our goals happen to be at any particular time.

The people we take on are vulnerable but they are used to being exploited. The system ensures that and that's what we are trying to change. People in South Africa and in particular the politicians have a hell of a lot to say about this subject but its all lip services and used as a means to get ones snout into the trough. That's something we are trying to change. We are cutting out all the middlemen, giving people the tools they need to get started and hoping like hell its going to take root and work. But no they are not ready to be cut lose and I sincerely hope they never will be. I want to see this developing as a cooperative where the members plough something back into the community and where we find ways to avoid the obvious pitfalls we are going to encounter.

Finally when it becomes time for contracts and it will happen, I am out of here. I hate that sort of stuff more than I do directory masters who lie, cheat and steal. Thanks for your interest. I enjoyed that

 

Maybe it would be a good idea to encourage the individuals involved to develop their sites further, while a fancy design is not essential, im sure that you have noticed that professionalism is important if anyone is to be taken seriously and progress in business.

Because the people are used to being exploited that doesn't mean that they should be exploited further, developing countries are deliberately held back from progressing, i know that the term "developing countries" should instill a thought of forward movement but its not quite like that, and you know that too.

It is not a case of them not being able to get their act together as they are and have been manipulated long term.

It takes longer for them to progres because usually the so called help is offered in a charitable way which appears like people are doing it out of the goodness of their heart when there is usually a hidden agenda underneath.

These vunerable people need control over their directories, cutting out the middle man would mean that they dont really need you either.

If i was to help these people i would do it completely for free, i wouldn't make it part of my own business.

Regarding contracts, they definately need them, for their own security and protection, otherwise they are wide open to allsorts of dangers and losses.

How do we know that you do not lie, cheat and steal? you have been very offensive towards people here for weeks and making out some directory owners as if their the spawn of satan, i thought you were doing something extraordinary and futuristic with the way you were talking.

Can you see what i am trying to find out from you?

 

You said it not me. And thats precisely why its important to be seen to be different. I dont want anyone to make the mistake of thinking that we are running "quality directories" or that we subscribe to any of the clap trap that some here, believe to be written in stone.

You dont need to worry about whether we are or whether we are not. We are not asking you for anything and are quite capable of pulling our weight. Watch what we do. Talk is cheap, we all know that.

 

Well firstly i dont argue with people on forums as i know theres always work to do elsewhere so im always happy to discuss and even differ as long as it stays on a calm and debatable level.

I have read some of your posts, well quite a few over the weeks and forgive me if i confuse you with anyone else here but there has been lots of arm waving and pointing the finger and suggestions that directory owners are not doing their jobs properly and not creating quality resources?

But you dont want to promote a quality resource yourself?

If i can introduce myself to you here workshop, so you know that im not looking to argue, im a fair and polite person who wont point the finger and have zero ego, i much prefer discussion and im open to learning from others and open to opinions.

But the accusations from you have been strong and now im looking into what you say you do and...

If i dont need to worry about what you are doing, then possibly you dont need to worry abut what anyone else is doing, can you see my point?

If you feel that you are owed an explanation or that anyone is not above board then show me how its done, you have shown much interest in other peoples business, and im interested in your business.

Can you see how risky it is to throw stones in glass houses?

I mean this in the most polite way and with full respect that you cannot accuse people of not doing things correctly and then become caged about your own work.

You are free to ask me anything about myself, what i currently run, what im planning, what i believe in etc etc, im open to your questions.

I would ask you though to take into account what you may be actually accusing people of and why your so upset with things before you futher accuse.

I have personally learned to look inwardly when looking for answers and why things dont satisfy, the problems are not always other people.

 

I agree with you totally. And you are right I do have a problem with people who are deliberately dishonest and who believe that they answer to no one. However I was not trying to duck your questions. In fact I was saying just the opposite. Watch what we do and if we make mistakes which we will, point them out. Thats how we all learn.

All anyone needs is an opportunity. Ours is a simple idea. We are setting up a network of privately owned and run directories where the directory masters have every reason to continue working together. No contracts needed. What contracts do you have? With whom?

 

Workshop, i have every respect for your and you project, but to continue to label on a broad spectrum directory masters a liars, cheats and every other word that you can find is unproffessional and getting to a point where it seems the only song you can sing.

What one could ask who is the villian these so called liars and cheats or some one who promotes as a directory master saving the world but dishes up poor to sub standard directories and tries to tell us this is the right way to go.

If i was the directory master that was controlling these directories presented i would hang my head in shame and resign, they are the biggest bunch of rubbish i have seen, they provide no end user value for money ( if directories are bing bult for the end user not to collect just links ), they would provide no enjoyment or satisfaction for the training directory owner and certainly do not provide or resemble leadership for any new directory owner to follow.

Like mentioned i do not have a personal grudge against you, but i think you are doing the talk and not the walk, and if a manager was worth their salt the options would be to put up or go home, so perhaps lets let your results speak rather than what is there now. walk the walk and forget the talk the talk

For the record if going forward you class me as one of your cheats , liars or whatever, please openly name me, and qualify your reasons for making those calls, but also when you do this be very careful you are basing these loose calls on fact. your continued attacks on unbased or qualified statements will only see many red flags coming your way.

 

Its just a turn of phrase borrowed from that bad taste soapie Smackdown and its not aimed at a broad spectrum of directory owners. I do however have an issue with the owners of Aviva and Alive who were largely responsible for building a house of cards, the collapse of which is hurting all of us. They have dropped out of sight and that's not the way it should be.

That's for you to decide. Some of us create wealth others do all they can to accumulate as much as they can and generally at the expense of others. Which camp do you belong to?

You are fortunate to be in a position where you have a budget to plough into whatever project you want to believe is going to fly but some people don't. They are also looking for an opportunity to show us what they are made of. Are you going to deny them that just because they are not wearing a tie? You are also missing the point entirely. Don't you understand that the vast majority of internet users don't make use of directories to find what they are looking for.

For the next three years at least our end user is Google. And if we concentrate on building real content and networking with special interest communities instead of trying to pretend we are something we are not, that might just change. What don't you agree with? What don't you understand about this?

 

Well Workshop at least you popped some names up, and it seems regardless of all issues you want the same thing a better outcome for all, all be it different paths.

In regards oportunity, you have no idea on my background or my work as much i with you, so we can leave that alone, but to answer spefic re the team you have, no i think it is a commendable thing to help others, i simply can not get my head around a few things.

I asked the other day why you did not use a free script for the directories to improve the look, your reply was in the vain of to prove that it could be done like it was.

I have no doubts it can, just like i could crawl across the desert here downunder to prove it could be done, but why would i want to prove that when I could catch an air conditioned bus, proving a point sometimes can be pointless.

And along with your belief that no one reads a directory ( of which i hope to dispell that myth very shortly ) i think you owe it to these guys if not only for their own belief that you source the very best free tools and products for these guys, this will help them to feel more inspired in regards their jobs and futures, what they are currently using must in some cases be as depressing as their current situation, bring them some sunshine.

I have a golden rule and that i do not judge myself, for i have no input and i accept how others see me, so it would be for them to make that call.

I can say however on a good year i will give away more than the average person earns, this is often in anonomus fashion with no one knowing except me where it comes from.

I have also dedicated most of my life living to my mission statement of which in part says " to help other less fortunate than myself that are in genuine need " and in that after helping more people than i can ever hope to remember i have learnt a few things, one is you can not help some one who does not want to help themselves, you can plod them encourage them, fly them to the moon and back and provide all the lovin and good encourgement, and if they do not have that inner fire to help themself then all the support in the world will not change them and even though on the surface they may appear to be paying lip service they soon fall back into the same patterns as before, so being more selective in who you help saves wasting time allowing you to be more effective by helping more people.

Secondly once you find the real deal, the best thing you can do is give them hope ( amongst the real help needed ), so give them the best of whats out there, its free, let them make the choices you need to make them believe they can do this, all you need to do is quietly guide in the right direction.

Lastly to do my bit when i am up and running i will fire of a few bucks for your directories, and i would be happy to list them at no charge to your team in my directory, but please give me something that i can present to the public ( just incase i get the real world to look at it )

I hate ties.

 

I believe that the most important issue when building a diretory is editorial integrity and this is one way to stress that. That is besides the fact that I am looking for the most cost effective way to enter the market.

If you page through the posts on this forum it wont be long beore you come across one where a new directory master is being advised to "promote" their site. Roughly translated it means pay your door money and spread happiness amongs the drones then take your place and work your way up the pecking order. Its self serving, its dishonest. I still have a lot to learn about marketing but I get pissed off with this sort thing.

We have a security problem like many other societies and this is exactly what I am doing. Lungisa is working from home in a shanty town and if his lap top doesnt get nicked and if we are successful he will become not only a trainer but a role model for other youths in the area. Whilst you may not see it, there is method in my madness. Why did we allow this industry to get so bent out of shape? You still hear respected members on this forum talking about athority status. Thats as deiberate as it is dishonest and I want people to see that there is another side to this coin.

There is nothing wong with our directories. They work and if the directory master approves a submission the webmaster will get a back link that carries just as much weight as either Aviva or Alive. The only question no one can answer is how long directories are going to survive. Despite what it might seem, we are building directories to last, we are also building directories to draw traffic.