This sums it all up.

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by AGS, Sep 23, 2007.

  1. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #21
    [​IMG]
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  2. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #22
    Of all the "cartoons," you only took issue with one. Go figure :rolleyes:
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  3. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #23
    This one's good too, GRIM :)

    [​IMG]
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  4. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #24
    Yes, as it was a blatant lie ;)

    As far as your new cartoon, I am not nor have I ever been a Gore supporter ;)
     
    GRIM, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  5. Jackuul

    Jackuul Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    115
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #25
    One man's truth is another man's lie. There's no such thing as truth, and there's no such thing as right or wrong. It's all subjective and its all what people believe. Disagree all you want, but its there and its said.
     
    Jackuul, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  6. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #26
    There are three parts to it. Which do you believe is a lie? Don't you believe America is losing in Iraq? Harry Reid came out a few months ago and proclaimed defeat for America on behalf of democrats.

    [​IMG]
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  7. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #27
    http://www.nysun.com/article/48926
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  8. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #28
    The death toll under Clinton versus Bush Jr for one. Even twisting it to the extreme doesn't equate on a per year basis. Maybe at the time of the cartoon it was true, who knows. At the moment everything I have read show otherwise. I have sene this cartoon before, and even republicans die hard to support it talked about how it was twisted and untruthful ;)

    The terrorists in record numbers especially in Iraq. So many things wrong with this. Most are not terrorists in Iraq, the majority of the few that are there were created by us being there. They are not the true terrorists that would be targetting the US.

    Losing the battles, well Iraq sure is a mess. Most everything I was worried about is coming true there, but you know same thing the experts said before the war that you nor any other chearleeder of the war would believe ;)
     
    GRIM, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  9. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #29
    There you go with the twisting, comparing ALL deaths under Clinton, suicides, accidents, etc to just those in Iraq at that time. Talk about trying to distort stats to ones agenda.
     
    GRIM, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  10. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #30
    Grim, I've placed no conditions. If you need conditions to satisfy the argument, you are welcome to them. The bottom line is, there were more military deaths under Clinton's administration than there are in the Iraq war. As such, the illustration is not lying.

    You may not like the facts; it may disappoint you to be proven wrong, but the bottom line is, I sourced it. I'm currently looking for the figures from the DOD website. I believe the toll is less than during the Carter administration as well, but I need to check that first.
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  11. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #31
    Gtech I have not been proven wrong one bit. The war on terror is now just Iraq? Nowhere else? Those at home in the military are not part of the war on terror? Really now, I bet those who signed up to fight the war on terror and who are not in Iraq will be glad to know that.

    The illustration is false, if you don't see that it's pretty damn sad.
     
    GRIM, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  12. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #32
    Actually, it's quite correct. I'd counter your source, but you've not provided any. As such, I'll take the high road and do it for you:

    http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/Death_Rates.pdf

    The cartoon illustration that is causing your grief states:

    Using the source I provided, add up the number of deaths in the War on Terror (and the Iraq war deaths) under Bush. Now add up ALL deaths under Clinton.

    Let me know what numbers you come up with. Remember what the quote says. You may not like it, but follow the quote, add the numbers up and tell me if it's a lie.

    Good luck.
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  13. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #33
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf

    Here you go for some numbers.
    War on terror, again so you're splitting hairs here. It's not every death in the US military?

    Wow even if you go this route, talk about trying to twist to your agenda. Props on being able to twist, lie and dodge to make even shit smell good.

    Have a source that breaks down per month? You have to twist it pretty damn bad to try to make it look factual, on a per day, monthly, percentage, every angle it is wrong. Unless of course you make determinations as to what is the war on terror, yeah almost proven wrong Gtech.

    Sorry I'm not about to believe twists and lies such as your followers do ;)
     
    GRIM, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  14. PalmIslands

    PalmIslands Peon

    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    9
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #34
    Ah ah :D :D
     
    PalmIslands, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  15. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #35
    No, I'm not splitting hairs. You said the quote was a lie. I've just proven it wasn't. I sourced it, I requoted it, and I asked you to please follow the numbers, as the quote indicates. It is you who is splitting hairs, trying to introduce additional criteria.

    Here's a calculator, try again.
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  16. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

    Messages:
    12,638
    Likes Received:
    733
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    360
    #36
    Sigh Gtech, no you are splitting hairs to try to make it look right. I gave you a link as well ;)
    1993 1,675,269 68,500 105,768 1,849,537 1,213
    1994 1,581,649 65,000 99,833 1,746,482 1,075
    1995 1,502,343 65,000 94,585 1,661,928 1,040
    1996 1,456,266 65,000 92,409 1,613,310 974
    1997 1,418,773 65,000 94,609 1,578,382 817
    1998 1,381,034 65,000 92,536 1,538,570 827
    1999 1,367,838 65,000 93,104 1,525,942 796
    2000 1,372,352 65,000 93,078 1,530,430 758
    7500

    2001 1,384,812 65,000 102,284 1,552,196 891
    2002 1,411,200 66,000 149,942 1,627,142 999
    2003 1,423,348 66,000 243,284 1,732,632 1,228
    2004 1,411,287 66,000 234,629 1,711,916 1,874
    2005 1,378,014 66,000 220,000 1,664,014 1,942
    2006 1,378,014 66,000 220,000 1,664,014 1,858
    8792

    But of course when YOU decide which ones are worthy of being considered the war on terror you can twist to your hearts content.

    BTW it states 'during the war on terror' not in the war on terror ;)

    Further edit, that also does not include all dead this year. But yeah your numbers sure prove me wrong :rolleyes:
     
    GRIM, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  17. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #37
    No, you are splitting the hairs. I asked nicely. You claimed the quote was a lie. It is not. Take ALL military deaths under Clinton and take all deaths related to the war under Bush. If you honestly (that's the key word there) do that, the numbers clearly indicate this is not a lie. You may not like the comparison, but that's not the issue. The issue is, whether it was a lie. It is not. The numbers clearly indicate this.


    Since you are unwilling to do this, as it would clearly show that it was not a lie, but in fact accurate, I'll do it for you:

    Under Bush, deaths due to Hostile and WOT:
    3 + 55 + 18 + 344 + 739 + 739 + 753
    Total: 2651

    Total military deaths under the Clinton Administration:
    1213 + 1075 + 1040 + 974 + 817 + 827 + 796 + 758
    Total: 7500

    Thus, going by the quote in the illustration and not splitting any hairs or adding any additional criteria.

    Case closed.
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  18. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #38
    Here's another math oddity:

    More military men and women died as a result of accidental death under the Clinton administration during peace time, than have died as a result of the Iraq war.

    Accidental deaths under Clinton:

    632 + 544 + 538 + 527 + 433 + 445 + 436 + 398
    Total: 4398

    Deaths due to hostile under Bush:

    3 + 55 + 18 + 344 + 739 + 739 + 753
    Total: 2651

    The only thing missing, is the outrage.
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  19. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #39
    Here's another math oddity:

    Nearly (but not quite) as many military men and women died in total in the last year of the Carter administration alone (2,392) as have died fighting the war in Iraq (2651) over five years.
     
    GTech, Sep 27, 2007 IP
  20. AGS

    AGS Notable Member

    Messages:
    6,543
    Likes Received:
    257
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    265
    #40
    Well if it's "only" 2,651 (which I fear is an underestimate) then it's all rosy isn't it GTech?

    About time to [​IMG] and stop boring us here on DP with your carpet slipper cheerleading.
     
    AGS, Sep 27, 2007 IP