why must we take sides - either the US or terrorism?

out of this whole post you got one thing right...and you continually harp on a rumor as if it were true...just cause you say it enough doesn't make it a fact...but in fact you make a very good liberal.

 

i agree earlpearl. much of this flame war is to stifle any possible dissent.
the thing is it makes it so frustrating when you want to say something against israel or america, or indeed 'the west' in general, and everybody jumps on the 'you love osama bin laden' wagon. i live in britain where we frequently critisize our government, but then we have an adversarial type of politics so heated debates are perhaps more common. i don't see anything wrong with questioning and challenging a government, especially those in the west that are the most powerful right now and so calling all the shots. but just for the record i am not a muslim, i in no shape or form support terrorism, and i detest killing of any kind!

 

I'm beginning to gather that there are those that seem to thrive on an argument. They rarely respond to some of us, unless we are saying inflammatory things ourselves.

It's probably just the way of things in the world. Maybe some people just like a good argument and find it less than fun to argue with someone that has a centrist view.

 

Rather than respond to the points of the OP here are the comments that reflect the problem:

Rather than respond to the OP each of those quotes delves into name calling and labeling. Of course each reflects the concern of the OP that discussions get twisted into attacks that regardless of the concern, the person who brings up the topic is a terrorist supporter.

The issue doesn't get discussed. The name calling is tied to alternative discussions that result in the topic being twisted from its original purpose.

In the US the tide is turning on this methodology. It is still being used. It is at times being used effectively, but it is currently being effectively directly contested now as the public has recognized it for its blatent political partisanship, its usage as a technique to sidestep the issue and avoid discussion.

I'm sure it will continue to be used...but we will find that the public is moving away from this stragegy. The public has begun to catch on and is sick of it.

 

I truly hope you're right that we're moving away from it.

One sign of what you're talking about is the publics' annoyance with (most) politicians and their spin doctors using attack ads against one another, rather than arguing the point.

 

jude thanks for the post here. It seems to me that you laid out a trap (most likely not on purpose) that was just unavoidable for the "with us or with them" crowd. It is like the animal that knows it is a trap, but unable to stop themselves from falling in. The proof is in the responses I guess. There will never be a change because this type of propaganda is deeply ingrained into the heads of these people. When you can only see black and white you find it hard to believe there are actually an array of colors, no matter how many times someone shows it to you.

 

thanks for quoting me...I appreciate it...and as I mentioned earlier, my post showed exactly what the OP was saying...that those that claim to not be at fault are in essence the ones who are at fault. As I said earlier, I made no claim of where I stood, yet what I did say was quickly rebutted as being pro-war....go figure.

 

So I take it d16 that you mean if an American does not support the war they are a patriotic American who you whole heartedly support in their willingness to discuss issues?

 

Pardon me for asking, but what is OP? Old People? <-joking, but seriously I don't know.

 

OP original poster

 

Funny thing is that I do not see anyone claiming you are pro-war before or after you made this claim

So you really are not making much of a point (as for a pathetic backpedaling attempt, I think that speaks volumes).

 

Yes reflect the problem is exactly what those quotes are doing.

Those comments are reflecting a problem with young angry muslims & self haters who do openly support groups such as hamas.

Naturally with a response like yours it indicates to me that you don't really know the people that those comments speak of or what they have posted, or you do, but maybe you don't consider hamas a terrorist group neither?

Being anti-war & speaking out about problems in your country is one thing, actually claiming terrorists don't exist (like AGS does), or supporting hamas like stox does is another. Then to actually say "oh people are calling us terrorist supporters" is strictly moronic.

These people should grow some balls & take responsibility for their own posts

 

And sources?

 

Actually I think you will find they dont understand the concept of a centerist view.
it exists outside the dualistic mindset that they view the world in.

You need to say something like
I refuse to chose between American Imperialism and Islamic Fundamentalism before they will even accept the possible existence of another point of view besides the simplistic attitude they have.
The concept of there being 3 points of view is totally alien to a republican.

 

He will post threads that state the exact opposite. It's part of his pathological liar personality.. The thing about the right wing is, if they can't win the argument they resort to lying.

 

LOL the irony!

Do these people really not see how foolish they're made to look?

It's something that I've mentioned many times. GTech and his cronies are of the opinion that unless you get behind your countries government 100% then you're not patriotic and are a traitor.

They don't seem to be able to make a distinction between the country itself and it's government. I'm at a loss why that is, I'd have thought anyone educated to a reasonable level would be able to understand the concept?

 

Two idiots i believe

Indeed.

I doubt they do, it's natural in their environment with sharia law & all that, i mean they make bombs & plots just as we make toast & other dummies defend them at every turn thinking it's patriotic.

I have noted this many times too, many believe to be against terrorists is supporting the government, i know it's very foolish really but some are like this, could you remind me Matt of any positive views you have posted of either the UK or American governments or did you just describe your actions above?

 

i agree matt, this whole patriotism thing really has me baffled. people stand up and announce that they are from a free country with freedom of speech etc., then they censor everything saying that it is not patriotic! in my opinion if you are not allowed to speak out against injustices committed in the name of your country around the world for any reason, then you are little better than someone living in iran, or china, who has had that right forcibly removed.
for goodness sake governments are meant to be challenged, that is why we have a voting system!

 

Censoring everything? care to explain, because from what i can see just here on DP is that everyone can express concerns about the government, some more than others & some even express concerns about the US, yet they do so from a country that they not allowed to question period

 

by censoring i mean other members jumping onto the forum and stating that the opinions of someone are anti-american or again that by voicing their opinion that person is in favour of terrorism, which kills off any healthy debate.
patriotism is a double edged sword for if we believe that we have the god given right to feel patriotic about our own nation to the point of wanting to blow our sworn enemies off the map, then by the same token other people from other nations have the right to feel the selfsame way, iranians and iraqi insurgents included. why shouldn't they love their nation enough to want to kill any percieved enemies. you cannot on the one hand allow your own people to be patriotic without allowing your adversaries the same rights.
iran shouts 'death to america', america has headlines like 'ahmadinejad - go to hell!' you cannot find fault with their childish name calling if you are going to engage in the same activity.