September 11, 2001 attacks were planned by the United States government

All I was saying is that the government has been involved in past conspiracies, so they have the ability to carry them out today. What, has the government suddenly become nice and friendly today?

 

Gtech, come on. First off, the article does not mention what materials the bridge is comprised of. Also, it does not say that the bridges burned from jet fuel. Did a plane crash into it? This is a poor example to use in your argument. It is impossible to compare this to 911, for a number of reasons.

1. Both scenarios are totally different.
2. A bridge is designed differently from a building.
3. There is no apparent conspiracy involved in the story you linked to.
4. The bridge could have simply collapsed because of too much weight. Who knows? Was it burning with fire?

 

There is a difference between dishonest allegations with no basis, and questions. It's very disrespectful to to insult 9/11 victims with this brand of hatred during the week of 9/11. But as I was telling someone (who really seemed reasonable after an exchange of PMs) just the other day, I had no doubt that you and your ilk would be here with your hatred during this time. Hopefully that person will come in and see what I was talking about and maybe even offer some comments. I'd be very impressed.

You've also been corrected many times by Lorien and after doing so, usually run away. I suspect in this very thread, you will eventually be owned a few times, then sit back and let other kooks do all the work, occasionally chiming in as the role of a cheerleader. That's how it always goes, doesn't it.

The truth doesn't matter to you, AGS. Only what your hero, alex jones, tells you to think, because you are not capable of doing so on your own.

 

It's a perfect example. Fire melts steel. This is an example. It debunks the entire childish 9/11 argument. But then facts don't matter, right?

Like I said earlier, loonies copy/paste questions that others have told them to think. They get debunked. The alex jones borg doesn't know what to do with facts, so they raise new ones. Rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.

So disrespectful.

 

Alright Gtech, I read your link, and it did mention fire, but I found this to be interesting:

"Heat exceeded 2,750 degrees, softening and buckling steel beams and melting bolts, California Department of Transportation director Will Kempton said."

Umm, Gtech? The article is right. 2,750 degrees would be enough to melt the steel in the bridge. This is what it said in Wiki about steel. But there is one slight problem though. This wasn't a result of jet fuel. It is obvious that the bridge collapsed because the heat source was higher than 1130 C, which I already established is enough to melt steel.

But the official 911 story says that "jet fuel melting the steel and caused it to collapse." I've also established that Jet fuel is not hot enough to melt steel, because it only reaches a maximum of 980 C, and because the steel in the bridge was exposed to hotter temperatures than 1130 degrees...........it melted, and the bridge collapsed, which works well with the laws of chemistry.

 

Don't hide behind a six letter word. Tell you what: go conduct your own little science experiment. Go up to a NYFD, NYPD or family member who lost someone on 9/11 in one of the attacks and ask them what they think of Bush forgetting about capturing bin Laden dead or alive.

Apologizers for Bush like to roll out the "we see things differently than you" card all the time, but in a case like this, where in less than one year Bush recanted on his promise to capture bim Laden dead or alive, it's pretty black or white. Unless you are a Bush apologizer or want to see terrorists that killed nearly 3,000 people get away with murder. Are you a terrorist sympathizer, Lorien or do you just stand beside a President that flip-flops over bringing justice to the graves of 3,000 dead Americans?

What does that have to do with anything? Will having US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan make it easier for us to capture/kill bin Laden? It doesn't matter: it was promised to the victims families and then our leader said it doesn't matter. He might as well have spat in the faces of everyone that wanted to see the perpetrator of 9/11 brought to justice. And since Bush hasn't what do we get? A new bim Laden video every few years with him laughing at us and reminding everyone that he got away with murder.

To answer your question I say yes, killing bin Laden would make the US safer -- and that is precisely the words that Bush and his administration have used when US forces captured and executed Saddam Hussein and other al Qaida leaders...so why is the leader of the terrorist force out to destroy America not considered important by our leader? Or a better question to ask yourself, since you seem blindly loyal to Bush, is why do you think bin Laden isn't important when all his second lieutenants and the dictator of Iraq seem to be to our winning the war against terror?

 

Looks like AGS ran away, yet again. Every time, like a little coward...proving he has no interest in facts. His only interest is absolving terrorists of their crimes.

 

I don't think Lorien can think for himself. This is a man that uses sentences like "Don't think for yourself. Just let someone else do it for you," when people dare question anything other than the Bush administration's point of view. As in my debate with him right now, he is actually supporting the notion that capturing/killing bin Laden isn't important at all and that President Bush recanting on his promise to deliver justice to the people killed on 9/11 isn't important in "context".

When I learned in history class that there were people that went along with and supported the Nazi party I couldn't believe how anyone could morally go along with something so blatantly wrong. Now I understand how it happens better when I see Bush supporters apologizing for the criminal misdeeds that he and his adminstration have done to America. It's disheartening to see that some Americans are so blinded by political rhetoric that they cannot see right or wrong when it stares at them.

 

Can we invoke Godwin's Law now?

 

Gtech, your example of the collapsing bridge in California didn't debunk anything, it just confirmed that Wiki is true, that steel will melt at temperatures higher than 1130 C. Since jet fuel does not get this hot, I think it is safe to say that jet fuel did not cause the world trade centers to collapse.

There is only one thing that can do this, and Professor Steven Jones makes this clear: it is Thermite. Thermite can cut through steel like a hot knife through butter. Professor Jones has actually got metal samples from the WTC sites, and guess what he found in it????????

THERMITE! Can you believe it? Do your research on this, and you will find out its true. So, Steven Jones found Thermite in the steel samples from the WTC center. Now, like any good detective(or scientists in this case) you have to keep asking questions.

Here is my next question: how in the heck did thermite find its way into the WTC steel?

 

Instead of another distraction that gets us away from the point of this thread, why not just add you answers to the questions that I asked.

Just because I used an example of Nazi loyalty doesn't mean it doesn't apply to my example. I could have easily substituted loyal Communist supporters in the dark days of Soviet rule, supporters of Pol Pot, Chairman Mao and so on. It doesn't change the facts that Bush supporters generally refuse to see any wrongdoings in this administration's handling of all events spun out from 9/11.

 

You know, I actually don't dislike lorien or Gtech, or lexiseek ,or even zman, who I know personally. The thing is, history teaches us that you don't just believe everything the government tells you. You have to question authority, and ask questions about things you don't understand.

I don't know why these guys blindly follow Bush. They think I'm a liberal, but I'm not. I'm actually more of a libertarian/conservative, but a true one, not the neocons that are currently in Washington.

Hillary and the gang are in the on this conspiracy too, and it is not about left or right. It is about freedom or slavery. These guys really have to read the history of the CIA. If they had read the stuff I've read, they would know why I don't believe anything the government says.

Once you're a liar, you're always a liar, and the government has lied too many times for me to believe what they say about 911, especially when they're a bunch of holes in the official story.

I just hope these guys can wake up and see reality before its too late. Have you started buying Gold Gtech? The dollar devaluation is not a conspiracy. It is definitely losing its value. I seriously think you should buy some gold and silver, but thats just me.... I mean, I've purchased some. Believe me, you don't want to trust the government when it comes to your money.

 

Actually, it does very much so. Fuel, steel columns, melt, collapse. It happens. It did happen. Of course, I can't take credit for the debunking. Smarter people that either you or I have been debunking this long before the San Francisco event happened, that just reconfirms it.

What questions? With so many posts flying around, disrespecting 9/11 victims, it's hard to keep up. I have pointed out the typical "troofer" though. He copies/pastes questions that others have told him to think, then when answered (proving that facts don't matter), copies and pastes in some more. Kind a lazy, but that's how it usually goes.

 

I do have a question for everyone who believes what the government says about 911: Are you really afraid of the government? Are you in denial about the fact that they could sacrifice 3,000 Americans for their own political goals?

If you are afraid, I understand. You should be. In the 20th century, 200 million people died because of governments around the world. Many of these died with a bullet to the back of the head. Government is the greatest enemy you will face in your life.

I'm not an anarchist. I believe in some government, but a limited government, one that follows the Constitution. Unfortunately, our government is not doing this today, but sticking your head in the sand like an Ostrich is not going to protect you and your family.

A dictatorship can arise here in the U.S just as it has in many countries around the world. Are some of you guys afraid of possibly having to fight the government, and maybe dying in the fight to protect your freedoms?

I admit, I have had fear. When I first confronted 911 being an inside job, I to was in denial. I was terrified that the U.S. government could do it.........but then I read the history, and I read about Project Shad, Project Ajax, The Tuskegee Experiments, MKULTRA, and then I realized the truth........the government could do it, and they did do it........all the evidence shows they did.

I wish they didn't do it. I don't want to disrespect the 911 families. But you know what? If they will kill those 3,000 people, they will kill me, and everyone who reads this. This is the reality...

 

The jet fuel and everything else that would burn was hot enough to weaken the steel. All the weight was on the frame (no support columns) and the weakened steel caused the building to collapse.

 

I've established in previous posts on this thread that the CIA took over the domestic(American) media in the 1960s with Operation Mockingbird. This means that any information you get out of mainstream magazines or television showed has been filtered through the CIA.

The people who "debunk" 911 being an inside job are government operatives, who are most likely paid by the government. They will attempt to hide the truth from the public, so people never learn what really happened. Gtech, I advise you to be wary from what you receive on Fox, NBC, or other mainstream sources. Almost all of these have been taken control of by the government.

This doesn't mean you should believe everything on the Internet either, but you should do research either way..........

 

I don't know about the weight, but Wiki makes it clear that jet fuel is not hot enough. Jet fuel reaches a maximum of 980 degrees, and steel will not melt at less than 1130 degrees. The steel in WTC buildings was also fireproofed, which is mandated by law for all the skyscraper.

It sounds like you're referring to the "pancake theory" that was aired on television. This is propaganda. The WTC buildings had a central core, and this core would have had to have been blown for the floors to pancake. The only way this could have happened is due to a thermite reaction, which Steven Jones shows scientifically.

If you really watch the WTC collapse footage over and over, and compare it to traditional building demolition, there is a powerful similarity. The buildings are literally vaporized. Fire could not have done this. Only explosive could have achieved this effect, and allowed the buildings to fall so fast. Also, notice in the videos how the buildings fell in their own foot prints. This is a classic example demolition. The WTC collapses were far too perfect.

 

Tesla, did you watch the recent show on the History Channel, debunking all the 9/11 lunacy?

One of the issues they raised, really hit home and I see it all the time. They talked about how 9/11 conspiracy crowd use the shield of "do you believe the official government story?" to their advantage. As the speaker noted, in words to the affect "of course no one wants to admit to ever believing anything official from the government" which is why they so often use this. I've seen you do the same thing quite often. When you know what patterns to watch for, it's really amazing to see them in action so often.

As for your new round of questioning. I don't fear the government. I've been around for 42 years. I've never seen men in black suits and cars following me, I've never had issue with the law, never been abused by "the man."

I do take issue with the government. I take issue with our current legal system, I most definitely take issue with our tax system. These are just things that never come up here. I take issue with alex jones and his mindless rants, raves and dishonesty. I admire him for suckering money out of young gullible white men...it's a great niche market.

Here's a question for you. What happens to Ron Paul if were somehow to be elected? alex jones makes his fortunes by pimping out fear of the government to his minions. They lap this up. Who wouldn't want to hate the big bad government? Everyone wants to hate the government. It's a great marketing niche. But if RP were to somehow get elected, alex jones would be out of business. His business is pimping fear, yet he promotes RP as the only solution for America.

Think about that.

 

Bogart, if you have some time, you might want to read the work of Professor Steven Jones. He is much more of an expert in this field than I am. The things I'm saying comes a lot from his research, not so much from Alex Jones:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Jones

When he started talking about the structural collapse of the buildings, he was relieved of his post at BYU. This tells me that the college did not take kindly to his questioning the official story of 911.

 

You cannot be serious? The same media that relentlessly attacks Bush, day in and day out? The same media that goes so far as to sell America out over Iraq?

Sometimes I wonder if you ever really take reality, and just look at it. If what you were saying were true, the media would be reporting how great a leader Bush is, how everything is going so great, etc.

What you are suggesting, which is really laughable at best, doesn't mesh with reality.