Hindu Mother and Daughters Gang-Raped by the religion of peace

Please.

You say scientific evidence - in the way of DNA matching technology - can be forged and is therefore suspect, yet you hold as inviolable the idea of 4 male witnesses giving their subjective testimony, in order to render "certainty." Here's your certainty: "uh, me and these 3 guys, uh, no, never saw anything." Case closed.

This has likely been the most ridiculously illogical thing I've seen on this board. And that takes some doing. Congrats. There's this thing called, "after the middle ages." You should try it.

Damn. I truly feel the pain of women under such a barbaric, atavistic mindset. The world needs to rid itself of such crap.

 

You're giving the example of people who would lie. The testimony of lying, impious people is not accepted.

With regards to DNA testing what do you have aside from the experts testimony ?

You really think american system where both sides hire "expert witnesses" to testify on their behalf is best form of giving justice?

 

I don't know why I continue, except this is really just tragically laughable, now.

"It didn't happen."

"It did happen."

Who decides who is lying? Someone there? Someone not there? This is the "certainty" you provide over objective, scientific evidence? YOu said, the testimony of "people lying" is not accepted. Therefore, someone besides your 4 decides what is the truth.

What, pray tell, is the point of the 4 witnesses, then?

Uh, data. Those centrifuged vials and DNA samples tend not to have a lot of personality. Further, as I understand it, current STR testing leads to a probability of somewhere in the neighborhood of 1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000 that the DNA match between the two DNA sample regions would occur by chance alone.

What would you guess would be the chance that 4 guys may or may not be telling the truth in a given instance? Any higher probability than 1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000, possibly?

It's a far cry better than deciding a case on the testimony of 4 supposed lay witnesses averring one way or the other, yes. In the U.S., these witnesses would be called, and their evidence weighed. But they wouldn't be the basis for deciding the case. Is this so difficult to comprehend?

Again, let's cut the crap. Forget DNA, for one ridiculous moment. Let's look at the logic of using 4 witnesses - people who actually witnessed the event a woman is claiming as rape.

Let's assume the awful, that she was indeed raped. 4 men who witnessed the event either stopped it, in which case, rape was an obvious event, provided they have the courage to do the right thing and testify truthfully; or, they stopped it, but out of fear, or some twisted sense of male honor, refuse to testify truthfully; or didn't stop it - in which case, would these 4 men, the only to witness said event, testify as to the truth (though not lifting a finger to stop it)?

Any of these scenarios pose a serious flaw in jurisprudence.

 

just to clear things out...
In Islam four witnesses are not required for a rape case.
It is for adultery/zina.
Those who claim that four witnesses are required by the woman raped must get their facts right

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudood_Ordinance

Is this, then, a misstatement of the policy?

By the way, I see this law was rightfully abolished in 2006. It should never have been in existence.

In this same article:

She was raped. I repeat. What does she have to be forgiven for?????????

 

complete and utter mistatement - here is the explanation from the writer of the hudood ordinance himself

http://www.deeneislam.com/ur/horiz/...AmendmentBill-1Mufti_Mohammad_Taqi_Usmani.pdf

That cannot say without having seen the original. The person who translated that obviously does not have english as his first language.

 

Thank you for the reference. I will look forward to reading your source.

To your second point, I don't speak Arabic, so of course, I have no ability to judge whether the translation is accurate or not.

 

The rape/adultery part of the Hudood ordinance was flawed. Even on Wikipedia it states :

There is a a difference between zina/adultery and rape(zina bil jabr) and this was misunderstood

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and about the second statement, i can assure you that it is a mistranslation.

 

Ah yes, it's always about translation.

 

sez the punk who claimed it was part of Islam to gangrape
"Gang-Raped by the religion of peace"

 

You have any solid facts to prove that it was flawed OTHER than wikipedia and some lunatics in the lobby?

Read the PDF the guy posted above, you will see a clearer picture.

The society is going down the drain and it is bringing the youth along with it.

 

These things only happen in India. Thank god.. its only rape. Otherwise, Hindus of India

 

Gujarati Muslims: It’s their turn!
Author: M. Joshua
Publication: Global Prayer Digest
Date: November 2002
URL: http://www.global-prayer-digest.org/monthdetails/2002/md-November-2002.asp
"And how can they hear, unless they are sent?" Rom 10:15

Two years after the AD2000 Movement ended its mobilization efforts to promote "A church for every people and the gospel for every person by the year 2000," one might be tempted to think that very few areas of the world remain where work among unreached peoples has not already begun. We might further assume that even where no residential missionary is present, most unreached peoples are at least adopted, or soon will be, by a church or intercessory prayer group to ensure that it remains in focus for future workers.

Sadly, nowhere are these assumptions more untrue than among the Muslims of Gujarat, a state in western India bordering Pakistan. Most unreached Muslim peoples of Gujarat aren't even listed in the mega-directories intended to guide today's mission deployment. So in addition to Paul's excellent question in Rom 10:15 (above), we might also ask, "And how can anyone be sent if nobody knows that they are there?"

This issue of the GPD intends to address this issue directly by helping God's people pray for many Gujarati Muslim peoples who have remained virtually hidden from the church for centuries.

Islam Arrives in Gujarat
When Islam began in the seventh century, the coast of Gujarat was already inhabited by a vast and ancient network of Arab sea-traders, many of whom eventually moved inland. The Kingdom of Gujarat, as it was then called, welcomed Arabs with typical Gujarati hospitality. By the 10th century, a leading Arab trader affirmed the testimony of his predecessors, "In no other part of India are Arabs and Muslims treated so well as in Gujarat." Muslims had already built large mosques with the assistance of local Hindus, many of whom were so impressed with Muslim piety they converted to Islam. Other Gujarati Hindus converted after hearing the preaching of mystical Muslim Sufis, or, according to widespread legend, after seeing their miraculous power with signs and wonders.

So unlike many other parts of the Muslim world where Islam spread after political conquest, countless Hindus of Gujarat embraced Islam peacefully, amid complete religious freedom. Still, seeds were already present for subsequent conflict since Muslims ultimately believed Hindus were pagan infidels, worshipping useless idols. They longed to replace idolatrous temples with mosques, and finally had their chance after the Turks conquered North India and Gujarat in the 14th century. Soon thereafter, many Hindu temples were destroyed and replaced with mosques.

Muslim rule basically continued in most parts of India until the British took power in 1857, and then split the country in two in 1947 when Mahatma Gandhi, a Hindu from Gujarat, finally won the struggle for independence. "India" was returned to Hindus after two portions called "Pakistan" were given to Muslims. While millions of Muslims then migrated to Pakistan, far more remained in India as a minority (13%) among a Hindu majority (80%).

Half a century later, over eight million Muslims in Gujarat remain virtually untouched by the gospel, without one residential missionary having ever labored among them.

Killer Quake 2001
As the AD2000 Movement was winding down to close its international office, God turned global attention to Gujarat on January 26, 2001 when a killer earthquake measuring 7.9 on the Richter scale jolted Gujarat and killed thousands. The devastation was so great that an international delegation of relief and trauma teams was immediately dispatched. Few survivors were pulled from the suffocating rubble; most died in cement tombs of debris. Was God giving the church another chance to see firsthand the beautiful peoples of Gujarat and minister to their dire needs? Did they notice the near total absence of His church there?

According to census data, less than one in 200 Gujaratis identify themselves as "Christian." Unfortunately, such census data is often a poor indicator of how many truly love Jesus and strive to obey His commands. Even worse, most of these so-called Christians live in urban areas of Gujarat, leaving the masses in most villages without any form of witness whatsoever. What little outreach does take place in Gujarat is primarily among minority tribals who are neither Hindu nor Muslim.

When a visiting missionary asked Christian leaders in Gujarat about efforts to reach Muslims there, nearly all replied without remorse, "No, I've never heard of anyone here trying to reach Muslims." A few responded that they had heard of one man reaching Muslims… in Kashmir, four states north! How could we move into the third millennium without even one church planting attempt to reach Gujarat's hundreds of totally unreached Muslim people groups? Most Muslim peoples in Gujarat have historically been thoroughly endogamous (i.e., they do not marry outside their community), a clear indication that barriers of prejudice are firmly in place to hinder the flow of the gospel from one group to another.

Four months after the 2001 earthquake, when international relief teams were long gone, over 600,000 Gujaratis were still struggling to subsist in temporary shelters, scavenging through the desolation to find remnants of property or loved ones. Gujaratis report that corrupt government officials pocketed most relief donations. A few lone voices among Indian mission agencies spoke up about the need to reach Gujarat-not necessarily its Muslims-but few have heeded their call.

Persecution of Christians
Ever since the BJP (a political party closely linked to fanatic Hindu militants) took control of Gujarat in the mid-90s, persecution of both Muslims and Christians has increased dramatically, and apparently with state sponsored collusion. India saw over 90 religious attacks against non-Hindu minorities in 1998, with 38 in the state of Gujarat alone. In December 1998, Christians held a nationwide day of protest to stop the wave of violence against Christians. Fanatical Hindus held a rally on Christmas day calling for an awakening among Hindus and branding all priests and nuns as "robbers" who abused government funds to convert tribal communities. Militant Hindus subsequently raped nuns, attacked Christian schools, and burned churches.

In such a climate of intense persecution, it shouldn't surprise us that neither Indian nor foreign mission agencies are eager to send church planters to Gujarat. However, after so many centuries of sending not one worker to Gujarat's Muslim millions, one wonders how much time we have left. Tragically, at least part of our answer came earlier this year.

Muslim Holocaust 2002
A train carrying 58 Hindu pilgrims was set aflame in Godhra, Gujarat on February 27, leaving no survivors. Hours later, reports began circulating that Muslim miscreants were responsible. The following morning, cadres of militant Hindu youth poured out of buses in Ahmedabad, Gujarat's largest city, with printouts of Muslim homes, businesses, and mosques marked for destruction. Detailed census data completed last year helped mobs destroy only Muslim residences in mixed neighborhoods.

Whole Muslim families were burnt alive in their homes after being barred shut. Others were thrown into wells, doused with fuel, then set aflame. Mobs forced Muslim children to drink kerosene before setting them afire. Pregnant Muslim women were cut open with swords, their unborn babies dismembered in their final moments of consciousness. Muslim men hid in office buildings, afraid to return home lest mobs intercept them. In many localities, the only Muslim businesses that weren't destroyed were those where quick-thinking owners painted "Long live [the Hindu god] Ram!" Most police were mere spectators, sometimes even participants, in the carnage. Police who tried to stop the mobs were brutally murdered. The orgy of bloodletting didn't slow until the army arrived three days later to protect the Muslim minority.

India officially reports a death toll of 1,000, though Muslims onsite insist it must be at least 30,000.
The swift and widescale extermination of Muslims suggests far more than reactionary violence to the Godhra incident. Indeed, the Gujarat government stands accused by human rights organizations that assert this holocaust was a "carefully orchestrated attack against Muslims planned in advance and organized with extensive participation of police and state officials." For those familiar with the stated objectives of the fanatical BJP party to establish Hindutva (a theocracy void of non-Hindu minorities), such collusion is not surprising.

Pray

* Pray that God will protect the Muslims of Gujarat from the deadly threat of militant Hindus.

* Pray for peace in Gujarat, and for Christians to finally rise to the opportunity to share God's love as they assist, comfort, and bless Gujarati Muslims at this most traumatic time. May they build strong bridges of friendship for gospel witness.

* Praise God for Al-Bashir, an Indian mission which recently began a Bible correspondence course in Gujarat and now has 150 Muslims enrolled! Pray that many more would soon enroll, and that God will draw each and every student of His Word to the Savior.

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0305/62.html