Humm .. I do not agree.. Hell exists in almost every religion, whether it is Christianity, Islam or Hinduism... Sinners will go to hell in afterlife, that is what these religions say. Do you agree?
No I do not, some religions teach a burning in hell but that is not a scriptural teaching and it is not a Christian teaching, (though some claiming to be Christian teach it). Hell comes from a mis-translation of the Greek word hades which means the common grave of all men .. ie at death. God has never even considered torturing people or 'souls' eternally in fire. Gods execution of the wicked is not everlasting torture but everlasting death, the punishment of never gaining Gods approval and blessing.
Depends what you mean. He cares for all in a physical way, regardless of belief or unbelief: He is not partial in who He accepts: Those who gain salvation will come from all walks of life: However when judgment takes place by God He will demonstrate His approval or disapproval of each individual. Everyone will have had the chance of responding to Gods message of the Good News and will have made a conscious decision to accept or reject Him; on that basis and at that time in His affairs, God will accept or reject them - the criteria being His.
At this moment in time those who die go to the grave, or hades, and await the general resurrection, which is yet to take place ... in the future. When God judges individuals at the end of this system of things, either directly as they are still alive, or by resurrecting them from the grave He will render judgment according to His criteria. Past examples like the flood of Noah's day, Sodom & Gommorah etc show that those whom God classes as 'wicked' will be destroyed. The bible speaks of the 'wicked' being no more and the 'righteous' inheriting the earth.
Granddad, What did the Watchtower change Rev 14:10-11 to say? From the King James: I was reading it on my own this morning and it sounded like hell to me.
Ahh yes, General resurrection, the judgment day!!! But, what happened to the non-believers after the Judgment day, what happened to those whose names are not in the book of life? They wont be resurrected, will they. There will be a new heaven, a new earth sans the non-believer, isn't it? Lets see, You say Hades is only a temporary place for the dead until they are judged in the final judgment. But what after that? Taken out of context, are they?
The New World Translation doesn’t change much from that at all (and please remember that the King James Bible was an alternative translation in its day, it wasn’t some divine original – many translations have been made over time in order to make the bible more understandable, in the view of the translators), the NWT says:- †he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of his wrath, and he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.†Now as you say reading the above, in isolation, may appear to suggest that there is such a place as hell and that God would literally torture people in hellfire forever. However we must look at the bible in its entirety, not just take one or two verses without full context – what then does the rest of the bible say? Firstly we should remember that the bible says repeatedly that God is a God of Love, would a loving God torment someone in fire forever? Would it even be possible to torment someone in fire forever, after all would not the fire cause them to burn and their bodies to be consumed? Remember that the Book of Revelation is a series of visions and signs, most of which is not literal; it records visions of many headed beasts, of ‘expressions like frogs’, of islands fleeing and of a woman being drunk with blood … these and many more are obviously not to be taken literally, they are presented in the symbolic form that the Book of Revelation uses almost throughout its content. So what does this “fire and sulpher†mean? Revelation 21:8 says:- Thus the fiery lake of burning sulphur here does not indicate literal torment but indicates final eternal death … complete destruction. Consider what fire and sulpher did to Sodom & Gomorrah as recorded at Genesis 19:24,25:- What did it do? It destroyed all the people and even the vegetation … complete destruction. Also look at a parallel prophecy at Isaiah 34:9,10:- Did that literally happen? No, it was in symbolic, prophetic language indicating that Edom was to be completely destroyed as verses 11 and 12 indicate:- Now there’s plenty more but I don’t want to bore you, suffice to say that the symbolic words of Revelation 14:10,11 show that those whom God condemns will suffer complete destruction just as happened to those in Sodom & Gomorrah and Edom.
No I don't think they are out of context Those who are judged by God as being 'wicked' will be destroyed forever as my previous post indicates. Non-believers shouldn't really be bothered by that should they ... after all they didn't believe anyway did they! There is no possibility of the bibles promise of a peaceful earth with righteousness being fulfillled when there are wicked people to marr the peace, so God acts in a loving manner for the benefit of all those who wish to live peacefully, honour Him and protect His earth ... by removing the wicked.
Thats not my point.. Today we have many scientific facts to think otherwise, but the days when science was next to nil, this was enough to scare people who were hesitant to accept God's regime.. One way or another, religions promote the 'fear factor'. - 'Those who do not believe in God, will not be resurrected. They will not get the blessings from God and will be thrown to the lake of fire forever, there will be no hope for them....' Death's been scaring people since....always, and 'hope' is too powerful.. The religion has given them hope, Follow the religion, The God, and you will live again, in a better world. Do not follow him and you'll dead, there will be no hope for you. Its a psychological forcing, not physical. It's another thing whether that psychology is working on someone or not. So its not the matter of non-believers being bothered by that.. They shouldn't. I do not. but it doesn't change the fact...
I don't agree with that at all - what attracts me to God and doing things His way is His love and the clear realisation that His way is best. Those who do anything for God out of fear have totally missed the point. The false doctrine of hellfire was introduced by those who wanted to keep people in fear but "There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love. As for us, we love, because he first loved us." (1 John 4:18, 19)
Definitely you do not agree, your blind faith wont let you to agree with it. But that hardly changes anything. If you see the things logically, and get rid on the blind faith you will agree. The religion is meant to love those, who follow and scare those, who do not. Some religions try to scare non-followers forcefully while some try to do the same but psychologically.
You are quite wrong, I do not have a blind faith, it is very much a faith with eyes wide open and with full understanding. I used to have a blind faith in this world, its scientist and its ability to save itself, my faith was blind when I associated with the Church of England, blind when I tried the Baptist Church and blind when I tried the Methodist Church ... most people have a similar blind faith today and the results are seen the world over. If the faith I have now only loves those who follow its ways, why does it actively follow Jesus' example in taking the Good News to 'non-followers' or 'unbelievers' at their homes, work places etc? If you knew how much of a sacrifice is made by millions of my faith to help their fellow man you would not even consider making such a statement. My faith does not seek to scare anyone, that is why we actively point to Gods love as being such an attractive quality, His love is what drew us to Him in the first place. His love gave the ransom sacrifice of His only-begotten Son so that everyone of us might learn of His love and receive salvation as a result. The bible tells Gods worshippers, 'love your enemy', to 'turn the other cheek' to 'seek peace and pursue it. Tell me ... if everyone in the world was a Catholic, would the world be a better place, would wars, crime and violence be a thing of the past? What if they were all Protestants, Methodists, Baptists or Muslims ... would wars, crime and violence be a thing of the past? My faith leads me to meet others of my faith the world over and wherever I go I experience the same welcome, hospitality and love from them without exception. Members of my faith refuse to fight in wars or get involved in sectarian disputes and rivalries, almost without exception they give of their time and energies to take the Good News to others ... such has been the effect of being taught by a loving God to exercise love toward others not of our faith. Logically? Yes plenty of logic there alright - 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating' as we say here.
You think I am wrong, but from my point of view, your faith is still blind. You think that other people have blind faith, not you. But other people think you have blind faith not them. To love anyone, You do not need faith in God, to made a sacrifice or to help others you do not need faith in God, you just need to have faith in humanity. You think that your faith doesn't scare anyone, but with logic I see it, it does.. God doesn't love anyone, because he doesn't exist, human love human.. Too bad that you need religious faith to love other human being..
You are entitled to your view but now you too are reducing your argumentation to the level of ridicule ... of course I don't need faith to love another human being. People fall in love all the time and people do good works from a sense of common humanity. However such does not change the world or make it a better, safer or more pleasant place to live in because it is so rare. Humans bring wars, ethnic-cleansing, sectarian violence and the like. You don't believe in God so you don't have any spiritual understanding, no surprise then that you fail to understand.
Those statements are not true at all, in the least. While many good works have been done in the name of one "god" or another, human kindness knows no limits and has absolutely nothing to do with the belief in a monotheistic "god". If you believe the only path to human decency is through "god" you need only look around to see that that isn't true at all.
Apart from what Palsys has said, I do not need God to understand things.. Spirituality is nothing, just an imagination.. Funny that you say it, I may find your arguments are ridiculous as you may find mine...
Human kindness sady does know limits, as the record of this world shows, even though there are many kind people and love is a quality displayed to some degree by most people. Sure there may be pockets of peace-loving happy people around the world, however the very fact that we have the worlds record of Nazi attrocities, Bosnia, Rwanda, 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, gang murders, paedophiles, child labour and other abuse, abuse of the elderly ... 'ad nauseum', demonstrates clearly that left to its own display of love the world and its people have no solid and everlasting hope. Sure there are individual oasis of kindness, in the hospital, in the family, loca school groups, with the elderly or the disadvantaged etc but this does not nor will not change the world, only Gods Kingdom can and will do that. If you hope only in this worlds human kindness as a solution to the worlds inhumanity then I feel sorry for you.