Yeah well then your ancestors shouldn't have believed in air because they did not have the tools for the physical tangible evidence. It was only with advancements in science that you can now prove it. Similarly, theologians believe that after death you will be bestowed with the power to prove the existence of God. What is so difficult to believe about that? Additionally, our existence proves the existence of an originator. Now whether you choose to believe an "atom" or "cosmic space" or "laws of physics" were your god or "God" was your god is upto you. In the end both theologians and atheists fail to solve the problem of the originator. Who created it? And it is like I always say If the truth be Subjective Then we are both spared But if it be Objective Then per heaven and hell One of us shall bask in the Gardens Of Paradise While the other endures the torment of the Fire So wait and see. We too are waiting. Soon we shall find out who is right and who is wrong.
Whew, so many of the standard, straight outa Brooklyn responses. I know the standard answers they provide for you but there are answers for archeological proof of the cross that can refute what Mr. Russell's organization has been training their members to say. Let's not rehash it as the cross as my question is whether the bible is sufficient with out some self proclaimed authority organization. I will from now on use the term courtesy instead of deal. If I excepted an invitation to visit a Kingdom Hall, does the Watchtower allow any JW to be courteous enough to accept my invitation? The answer will undoubtedly be no and there will an answer they gave you not one that you came up with based on your own study and thinking. If your religion was true, visiting a Christian church could cause no harm and is a small price to pay to have someone visit your Kingdom Hall as I know most people are familiar enough with your organization that it is hard for you to get visitors. I heard a number of years ago that 3900 hours were logged on your time sheets per new member gained so I think it would be quite effective if you exchanged the courtesy of visits to Christian churches for a reciprocal visit to the Kingdom Hall.
Just because someone refutes something does not mean it is so. It's up to individuals to make their own decision whether Jesus died on a cross or on a stake. I am not going to mock your opinions, no matter how arrogant they seem to be at times. I will allow you to mock me and Witnesses as much as you like. This just means I am doing my job right. Jesus said we will be persecuted. Therefore, you are fulfilling prophecy right there! Congratulations! This is the very thing you seem not to understand. Even though we are united in worship, does in no way mean we are ruled by the Watchtower Society. Are you listening closely? The Bible! It's the Bible that rules our lives. Why? Because it comes from God. I can answer for myself. You keep saying I am answering as though I am taught to say word for word. Go look up any literature of ours and try and match it to what I say word for word. You won't be able to because what you say is untrue. Whether you believe it or not. Or like it or not. Jumping to conclusions will win you no awards mate. It just makes you not look so bright. What defines a religion as true? How would you answer? I have no idea where you get those figures from. The figures for "timesheets" (LOL) is to see progression for our preaching. There's no awards, bonuses or anything like that...LOL I'll give you one good reason why we don't frequent other churches. Read Revelation 18:1-17. The words here are very clear about false worship. Very clear about the types of religions that mix with governments. What dos it say to do? "Get out of her". If that reason is not good enough for you, than what is? Regards, Col
It's funny how you call Christians arrogant and then call everything except your exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices as false. If someone uses only the Bible as they seek they will become a Christian but they will not come to have Watchtower theology independent of the Watchtower. If it were so people who came to have that theology with out the guidance of the Watchtower would have set up there own churches and you would be allowed to visit them. You can not name a church that based itself on the Bible and aligns itself with Watchtower doctrine. What kind of churches does the Bible produce? Not Kingdom Halls of the Watchtower Society, that is for sure.
Please do not words in my mouth. I never said "Christians" were arrogant. I mentioned that your comments seemed arrogant. That is two totally different things. Well, this is the very problem you have identified. People using the Bible to suit their own agenda. It's like "who cares what God thinks? I'll go my own way about it". That's the type of thinking that man has been doing for thousands of years. Jeremiah said it all in Jer 10:23. You keep going on about the Watchtower Society producing its own Bible. Have you even read my posts about this prior to this? No. Have you researched Westcott & Hort thoroughly and how they came to produce the NWT? No. Mate. Just keep going and accusing the Watchtower Society all you like. It does not change one thing. We teach people about what the Bible teaches. If you feel you need to prove me wrong on this, then go for it. Jesus said there will be ridiculers. People will hate us because of his name. Regards, Col
Col, Are there any valid churches outside of the Watchtower's exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices?
How would I know why you are asking? That would make me think you have an agenda. However, I will answer your question to the best of my ability. I sure hope you can understand my words. Here goes: Valid churches? What exactly is a valid church? What is about a church that makes it a valid one? Who decides its validity? According to the Bible, there is no physical church. The Bible talks about God's people. Jesus talked about God's people. Paul talked about God's people. These people are the very ones that are "valid" as far as God's word is concerned. These very ones are marked with the secretary's inkhorn to be saved from destruction when God finally steps in and vindicates his holy name. That's the only "church" that I know of that God sees as "valid". The Watchtower teaches from the Bible's perspective. Which means they teach from God's perspective. Why? Because God is the only one who knows what is best for us. God created us and that gives him the right to rule over us. We are just mere imperfect humans living on a dot in the universe. yet, he inclines his ear to us when we look to him and ask him for help. Not help like "I want a plasma screen God so give me one". Help, as in "I am suffering here God, please help me, and please help all those that suffer too". Jesus told us the very things we should pray for in his Sermon on the Mount. What was the pivotal and first thing to ask or pray for? To sanctify or hallow God's name. Those who disrespect or persecute those who try to do the very first thing that Jesus showed us to do, how do you think God feels about this? When, we can't even follow simple instructions from his own Son? Which brings me to false worship. The Bible makes it very clear about what will happen to people who falsely worship God, or worship a false god. This is God's judgment and not mine, and certainly not the Watchtower Society. We, collectively, follow the rules, as set out in his Word. Therefore, I have to answer your question "no". There are no valid churches outside of the Watchtower's exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices". Regards, Col
Only God can really answer that as he and his Son are the only ones who can read our hearts. According to the Bible, only those who are doers of God's word and not just hearers of God's word will make it through Armageddon. This is the very point. What is it exactly that we need to "do" to qualify? To qualify is to be valid. Therefore, if we as individuals are not doing all the things we need to do according to his will, and if we have the capacity to do so, then that would make us not valid. Hope this is clear for you. Good questions though Col
So at my church (and many others) we are doers of God's word and not just hearers so we will make it through Armageddon without being part of the Watchtower organization, correct?
Nice try. That's Jesus' decision as executioner for the day of judgment. If you believe you qualify, then that's your decision and right to believe that. It's never been any humans call for that. All according to the Bible, or course! Regards, Col
Okay, I will concede your point - with your thermal imager you can see the image of the gases which are moved to form wind and with your electron microscope you may be able to see the movement of the electrons caused by switching the electricity on - you cannot however see either of these things unaided. Similarly no one can see God unaided but they can see Him with the aid of spiritual eyes of faith because the evidence of His existence and His qualities surround us. "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (Romans 1:20) You may not understand that or accept it but that does not make it wrong.
I knew You would say so.. The aid I use to see electricity or wind are tangible equipments.. One can see them, and can prove their existence. But, on the other hand "spiritual eye" or "inner eye" is as much non-existent as God. The "spiritual eye" is an imagination itself, just like a kid's fairyland, and chocolate tree and milk river. So to see one imaginary subject, you need another imaginary object.. That makes the whole issue pretty much imaginary, isn't it? So at last it comes down to faith, an imaginary faith... My understanding or acceptance doesn't make it wrong or right. the whole God theory lacks logic. When it breaks up, it comes down to an 'imaginary-blind-faith-sans-logic'. That makes it wrong...
Faith is not imaginary and it is not blind, (though I accept some may have a blind faith), is is based on the clear evidence of creation and the Word of God. Of course some cannot see with eyes of faith just as some cannot use electron microscopes or thermal imaging equipment. You cannot see it so you decry those who can ... such has been the case from the begining. God has given you the freedom to believe or disbelieve as you wish, He forces no one to believe in Him or worship Him.
What evidence and which word of God? You mean some religious books, claimed to be words of God? Faith in a non-existent imaginary thing is indeed imaginary.. As you said, I need an 'spiritual' eyes to see the god, but spiritual eye is itself imaginary. Can you prove its existence? Anyone can use electron microscope or thermal imaging equipment, as long as they are not physically blind. But thats not the case with 'spiritual' eyes. only some 'blessed'(?) people can use it(?), and however, they can not provide any evidence.. God doesn't give anyone anything, it's human that made a choice. As far as forcing is concerned, yes 'God' tries to force it's regime by threatening people with afterlife burning hell and all. Almost in every religion God says, non-believers are sinners and will burn in 'hell'. So in other word - it saying, believe in me, or burn in hell. (Thats threatening)