I've read a few blog posts and heard various comments out of the mouths of some top-notch SEO's that lead me to believe that they aren't pulling in obscene amounts of money. I don't want to name names, but I have some specific examples of comments I've read where I was REALLY wondering how a skillled SEO could not be making more. My question is if you are a kick a*s SEO, why would you do it for clients and not just dominate the SERPs and make money running your own businesses? I know that some of the top guys have done black-hat stuff in the past and whatnot, but I'm just talking white/grey hat stuff. Stuff where you are not at risk to having an entire network shut down overnight so you have a little more stablity (something they seem to seek when they go to do consulting). I know that a lot say they do it to smooth out ups and downs, but if you are devoted full-time to building out big sites/networks then aren't you kind of diversified that way anyways? I don't know, just seems like a top SEO with a good programmer could just pick off mid-competitive niches all day long and just build out a huge empire. It wouldn't have to be pills/poker/porn type stuff. It could be a mix of medium competition affiliate programs, drop ship ecommerce sites, contextual advertising sites, membership sites, etc. I mean, for example, if you're a top tier SEO guy and you have a solid programmer on staff. Don't you think you could make more by creating a membership site with a small monthly fee? $50/monthx 1000 users is over 50k. And then the potential to sell them all those little tools you created for use with your clients. Look at a guy like John Reese in the GRQ niche, he's in the process of creating a membership site to take advantage of the good reputation he has in the industry. I don't know, just seems like you could be much better off than doing the work for someone else.
Interesting take! I know of two individuals with affiliate sites who bring in more than $100,000 a year, but none who serve clients and make anywhere near that. I suppose not everyone is a true entrepreneur...even if you are an SEO expert. Speaking of black hat SEO, I heard that John Chow (dot com)who was making north of $120,000 on his site just got knocked off the Google index...I wonder how much it's hurting him.
First of all, pretty much everybody who does affiliate marketing does just that; they use their SEO skills to promote products/services ect. the only difference is that they don't run the actual business that produce/manufacure or provide the good or service. What you are suggesting just imposes an administrative nightmare for one person (or even an office of people) to undertake. For example instead of an affiliate just promoting a Blockbuster offer, you are suggesting instead to start your own Blockbuster-like-corporation and then promote that. Just because you have success at SEO and internet marketing does not mean you can run a business or corporation. But if you are talking about people who purely do consultation work, it works in much the same manner... Most SEO consultants do not have the skills to run a business so they specialize in the area they are good at, that is, improving the rankings for established companies. There are things like branding that come in to a lot of big businesses internet marketing plans - these are worth far more to a company than a sale is to them, so they are willing to pay a lot of money for it. I can't stand when people only recognize 'real' seo experts as people who work on their own sites. For example if I got my affiliate site ranked in google as #1 for "mortages" I would be pulling in $1000 or so a day in revenue, however, that is the limit of the gain I have achieved by ranking my site so highly, as it is not my business I am promoting I am merely getting sales. Whilst if a business gets ranked that highly - they have established their brand name, they have given people valuable information, established consumer loyalty, ect. which also helps to build their offline business. It may be worth more than the mere $1000 in sales to a business therefore they will be willing to pay a premium for that ranking. Whilst at the same time you don't have to be involved in any of the day to day running tasks of the business, and you are able to replicate it with another 10, 100 or 1000 clients. But to tell the truth, I don't think many SEO consultants JUST work for others, I think a lot of the time they are producing their own sites and establishing their own businesses as you said. And in terms of all the so-called 'gurus', it is usually a case of empty vessels making the most noise.
Sometimes as a SEO expert or programmer its more motivating to see results for someone else but most of all have money upfront from a client and do a job for them than to scratch your head for days to think or make up a business idea that will later bring money.
I agree with a number of guys above me, that top SEO's usually do a bit of both. Basically doing some client work that is reasonably lucrative, and keeping a few affiliate sites going behind the scenes. Also bear in mind that the top SEO's usually aren't the ones who make the most noise. There are a lot of SEO'swho hide below the radar, working 9 - 5, and running an affiliate empire behind the scenes. In some cases, it's not worth advertising yourself to the competition.
Uh...no, that's not what I'm suggesting. Where did you get that idea? I'm saying that these guys who are top SEO's could make a living off of attacking mid-competition affiliate programs by building networks of sites that promote them. Kind of like a guy liek Shoemoney, he admits he's no SEO guy but he has a programmer and himself and he is dominating a market like ringtones. Most of these SEO's run their own consulting practices, so they are running their own businesses. I don't really call them 'real' seo experts, more like the smart ones will run their own business. I can't, for the life of me, figure out how someone that is so skilled in SEO would not be doing it for themselves on a full-time basis.
Most likely because they have other interests that are making them more money. It's also possible that they're giving out free advice because they love to (as in they truely want to see others succeed), or maybe they're offering it as a freebie to draw people in to their core businesses (basically treating their SEO "consultancy" as a word of mouth marketing tactic). It's like this little restauraunt in Chicago called Lou Mitchell's that offers free doughnut holes and Milk Duds to patrons while waiting for a table. The customers aren't going to say "You GOTTA try the pastrami on rye at Lou's!" but they are going to mention the free food to their friends and family, which will in turn draw them into the restauraunt (thus making Lou more money to spend on the doughnut holes and Duds to hand out to the new patrons so they'll say "Yeah, they really DO give you free food while you're waiting to be seated!").
plus it is a skill in itself to make a profitable website, you can direct all the traffic you want to a website but if it doesnt convert then its not going to do anything for you. you need high rankings and conversions to make money.
Perhaps because SEO is just one minor componant of the larger picture of making a well coded web page? Maybe because designing a web page is not viewed by the public at large as a big money industry? Maybe it could be that it's a sick fad exploiting loopholes in the search engines that could be plugged at any moment to prevent people from abusing the system? Or maybe, just maybe because SEO is less important for big commercially successful websites that have content users come back to revisit time and time again, reducing a LOT of the SEO rhetoric to the obsession of sleazeball **** click-through advertising link-whores trying to drive one time visits to their vaccuous crap site built on a stock turdpress or joomla template instead of taking the time to have actual content and value on their pages? Just a wild guess.
It actually doesn't change very much. Not the fundamentals anyway. The shady sleaze-ball grey/black-hat tricks do though, which if you're (not you, just people in general) are serious about real SEO, you'd avoid like the plague in the first place.
SEO is tricky stuff. Most pros don't get the programming or entrepreneur side of things. Same with programmers, they think 1's & 0's and rarely get outside of their box (not even to brainstorm). Someone who is vested in all 3 does just what you are speaking of, work it all for you. Forget affiliate stuff (amazon, etc.) they are usually just doing MFA because you can create then put on auto-pilot. Eli over at blue hat seo is just this kind of guy (with a few affiliate programs thrown in). I'm sure he has 100's of sites now and is giving away tons of information just to help his fellow net surfer out. His preaching is more "shades of gray" SEO, but I guess that is why is hat is blue. I personally love reading his blog, he really makes me think which doesn't happen frequently online these days. I don't think anyone works for other people's sites because they enjoy doing it for customers. That is total BS. These people are just in between professions and do not make a full time income from their sites. Once they do, rest assured the corporate clients get dumped and they retire to a hammock in the Bahamas.
I don't do it because I don't want to own a network of affiliate sites.....Its too tedious to promote and maintain websites when you are not interested in the subject. When I'm working for clients it is different...I love the challenge...and the frenetic pace of the industry and the fact that there is no one solution to a problem....every site is different and should be promoted as such..
So it's not the cash that motivates you, ranter. It's the thrill of the chase. I don't take clients anymore for SEO. I'll program and do design for them which I view as tangible goods. SEO is more of a magical ideal that if done well yields mega profits. Common business owners really don't understand this therefore you are trying to sell ice to an eskimo. They need this stuff to build a solid house but they are looking around and seeing it is everywhere. Why can't I just add some meta tags and start getting #1 rankings? Yes it sounds simple enough but when you consult for $XXX/hour they, frequently, don't like the work you are suggesting. In the end, do it for youself and sell other products. You can sleep well at night while (slowly) building your e-mpire