I was just wandering how many DP members would be interested in hiring a Adwords Professional to manage there Adwords Campaigns by doing things like Creating Ads, Finding Keywords and constantly updating them, Targetting specific related sites via Adwords, etc.? How much would you pay for something like this? Have you hired someone before, what was your experience? Do you offer a similar service? Feedback? Thanks
I'm not yet in the position to outsource that, but I would be looking for adwords professional, not necessarily Adwords Professional. I would pay some small basis fee + performance fee.
Interesting. Why would you hire someone proclaiming to be an adwords professional who wasn't an Adwords Professional? The requirements/exam are there to provide at least some measure of the worth of that individual and anyone that isn't qualified and sells their services should surely have a good reason for doing so. While my answer is going to be obvious, it's worth saying. I've always maintained that Adwords is a terribly dangerous product. It's very simplicity in starting means that it's very, very easy for companies to run campaigns without realising they're throwing money away. To have any idea of whether a campaign is running at peak efficiency the manager needs to know much more than the basics and I do truly believe that a professional can help almost all campaigns run more effectively. Of course, there are plenty of 'non' professionals out there who are actually running a perfect campaign, but they won't necessarily know that without checking.
You say it's very very easy but: 1. Some people don't have the time to worry about this and just want someone else who knows Adwords inside out to do it. 2. When people are spending thousands a month they want to make sure they are getting the most out of there money Nice self promotion of your own site as well
Brennan, you missed my point. I wasn't saying it's simplicity was a reason not to hire a professional but that this simplicity leads, for some, to poorly run campaigns that really need a professional. I'm not the one with a logo as my avatar
For what my opinion's worth (as an Adwords Professional and a PPC Account Manager), I think that whilst the Adwords Professional qualification is of some use, it only tests your ability to run an account, not your ability to optimise it. Applying the various tools available on Adwords effectively is critical, but un-examinable, imho. I'd suggest looking at websites based on personal recommendation (from people you know), their client list, and any blogs etc on their sites (a good indicator as to whether they know what they're talking about). Most (?) offer a free discussion or consultation, so you can get quite a good feel from this as well...
I've outsourced to companies both large and small with mixed results. Size of the company doesn't matter - it's all about the person (or people) who are actually working in your account. I will say that in my experience ppc management comapnies that have a heavy reliance on automation tend to get out performed by companies that don't count on automation to do most of the heavy lifting. On the flip side, I've seen people and smaller companies that think they are "great" until they get under the hood of an account with some established history that's been professionally managed. It's one thing to build a campaign from the ground up and maintain it. It's a whole new ballgame when you're handed an account that's already in full swing. Edit/add - In a different industry about 10 years ago someone I respect told me something that I clearly remember to this day - "amateurs ask what you'll pay, pros quote their rates".
Indeed, but the qualification does require at least a reasonable knowledge of the features and settings for Adwords, something that you can't guarantee anyone without the pass will have - and some of them are important features. As for recommendations, yes, for sure they're useful, but as I mentioned before a company may be very happy with their account manager without realising that he's not doing a good job. With no 'yardstick' to gauge performance £500 for 600 clicks may look very good without them ever knowing that it should be 1500 clicks (and with possibly a higher conversion rate) for that price. Of course, this leaves us in no-man's land without a sure-fire method of saying 'I can trust that person' but then that's the case with virtually all services. Perhaps the exam should have higher requirements. It's always struck me as strange that you only have to have managed one account to qualify and £500 for 90 days is a laughably low figure. Jon (who can't use the signature feature because his account isn't 7 days old yet) I think I prefer Red Adair's "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Jon
Im just a little bit nervous going with a company and committing that much money, a bruceclay.com is like $10000 min a month, to something I am unsure is going to work. I dont have the money to be doing 6 months with out results ya know? DOes anyone know of any experienced professionals that aren't too expensive but can get good resulats in the Home and Garden arena? We have site that sells memory foam beds. PM if you know of some experienced people.
I completely understand this, but as we've been discussing there really are no guarantees of success even if the company has awards coming out their ears and are personally recommend by the Pope. This is why any decent company will define targets within their contract with you and will agree terms on meeting - or not meeting - those targets. What's worse - giving a company the contract and them screwing up but leaving you with the opportunity to get the money back somehow (even if by torturous legal means) or attempting to run the campaign yourself and making an error where the only person responsible is you? (And I'm not saying you would make an error, but we're all human). Well, firstly I wouldn't wait 6 months! You should have positive and reassuring results within a far far shorter time frame than that. More importantly I never start a campaign on the budget that's it's expected to reach. I usually suggest a budget of somewhere between £100 and £500 (depending on the campaign, company, expected final budget, etc) and use this as 'seed money' to build and tune the campaign. This way the client isn't risking so much but the metrics of the campaign can still be seen. Once the client is happy that his ROI is X then he can increase the budget as recommended or within his limits and hopefully by this time he'll have a better idea of whether I'm worth listening to or trusting. Jon Jon
That can be true especially in the Content creation forum all the experts say I can do it for x price or give a run down about themselves the noobs just say "how much i get paid ?"
I wouldn't commit to a 6 month contract with anyone - you should be able to find someone that operates on a month to month or 30 day out. (I do this with my clients because I'm confident in my ability - and I don't mind having to prove it every month.) Also, minimums are for companies with big sales forces that can turn down business, you should be able to find someone who can work at your budget level in an arrangement you are comfortable with. I'm sure GFC can point you to some threads on DP that talk about the different forms of compensation for professional campaign management.
A very interesting subject. Soon, i'll have a large sum of money coming in ( real estate sale) and instead of getting some bank richer by just depositing the money,i am seriously thinking of investing in the online market (in particular, promoting aff programs using PPC) ,since this is my main source of income. Now, when it comes to investing large sums of money, i get nervous,like many other people so finding a reliable PPC manager is, for me, a stresfull thing. I see that most PPC management companies/individuals ask a set-up fee + 15-20% of the monthly budget spent, but they don't say a thing about underperforming situations. This fee structure only motivates them to spend more not necesarily getting the best out of a PPC campaign. A pay-per-performance fee would be the best solution,in my opinion.
I have been looking to hire someone and have found a few good people. I will be glad to pass on their names in a PM if anyone is interested. Atleast one of them is willing to work on a pay per performance basis. I do agree though that most people want that setup fee, plus 15%.
Hi Smartgirl. Some great points there. The average time it takes from when we receive a lead to closing the lead is 40 days. That's how long it takes to either meet with clients and explain what we do, and answer any questions that they have. Also, the pricing model should be different for each client. For example, we have one client that is a super affiliate spending 10k a day on PPC and another well known international technology company. A performance based pricing model is perfect for the affiliate as it removes risk however with the large corporate client, the marketing budget is set in stone and a fixed monthly rate is the only thing that they could possibly accept/justify. It all depends on the client and it is all about them and what is best for them. Being flexible is essential. We have also had a lot of success in a model proposed by a retail client where we get a % of their sales. Again, it all depends on the client. Before you choose a PPC management company, ask about their current clients. Our current clients would be more than happy to take phone calls and give testimonials for us (As long as it's not in their industry!) and this hsould be true of all online marketing companies.
I don't know if I would do it without a contract (required term but also a required performance on my part). It doesn't matter how confident in your skills you are, any knucklehead knows if PPC is done right the majority of work is the first month then it's usually smooth sailing with less than 25% of the initial time investment required to maintain it and slowly test small changes. Unless of course you're dealing with a very small low budget account. Many out there find a hard working PPC person use them for a month and try to take it from there feeling you've already done all of the hard work (whether it's true or not). Also, if it's an individual, they shouldn't be accepting more than a couple of new clients per month if they want to have the required time to get you going up to speed as fast as possible. So many people that do PPC think they are much better than they actually are. Get a high CTR for high Google trust and as low as possible $/conversion sounds like all there is right? That's where they're selling themselves short. For example, if you were to have a strict budget for PPC advertising these forums you would first need to study the type of people that make the boards better. Those would be the people that are going to be long term members and contribute to content. While bringing people in on the key phrases "seo expert" and "google sandbox" may have the same CTR, conversion rate and cost per conversion, the people coming in are here for completely different reasons. One is likely to be the type to stick around while the other was only here to ask a few questions and be on their way. It's the difference of tier 1 to tier 2. PPC people ignoring the above are likely to charge less, do month to month, pick up nearly any client at any time, and have no setup fees. They will get you your leads/conversions through textbook methods for cheap but leave you with lower quality. A better example might be from my own recent experience. One of the companies I recently dialed in their campaigns for thought they were doing fine before I came along. They were getting as many cheap health insurance leads as they had the time to use. After I came on I studied the lifespan of the lead and the likeliness it would end up in a sale by phone or not. I studied the difference of getting cheaper leads overnight and on the weekends vs. paying higher for mid day leads that were newer and hotter before deciding which would end up in more sales and make the agents more $. I also studied the age groups that qualify, which age groups were easier for the agents to close the sale and which age groups brought in the highest commissions. The easier you make it for the agents to sell and the higher average commission they get, well, = happy hard working agents. To adjust these things it's a matter of age demographics, the ad wording done in a way to appeal to one but not another that are searching the exact same phrase. After 4 months I've nearly doubled the chance of a lead turning into a sale and greatly increased the average commission per sale of the agent. I don't consider myself a super hero PPC guy, just one who does it right. Basically you kinda get what you pay for. I would recommend with any decent size account to get someone who has taken the test and qualified. If they take PPC serious and want to take on clients, they can very easily pay the $50 fee for the test and pass it no problem. One last thing, I'm posting to participate, not try and pick up more clients like some seem to here. I would back off from someone trying to advertise their PPC services. If they've proven themselves to multiple clients, they probably have more than enough work through word of mouth. Business owners are the most networked people in the world and love to share and trade information such as "who made their awesome logo" "who does their PPC and how great it is"...
Thanks everyone for your detailed replies keep them coming BTW reseg I'm not trying to advertise my services although I have had a few people contact me which I am happy to help, I'm trying to research it .
The only time I consider a PPP arrangement is if I have complete control of the landing page(s) that will be used for the campaign. The client must agree to this in writing or I won't touch the account. You can do everything right on the AdWords side but if the client has a crap landing page or keeps changing things on it (like adding phone numbers....) without involving you you'll end up beating your head against a wall before you know it.
I have a client like this they are getting very cheap clicks although there landing site is so crappy, it could turn out to be very good for them if they fixed it.