Farenheit 9/11 now free... What do you peps think?

It's goes much further than this forum.

 

Yep. Children that grow up with parents who do not pay attention to them, often let alex jones do their thinking for them.

 

I find it interesting that people like you who defend the two-faced Bush like to play down the intellectual capacity of those that are critical of our President. He spoke those words, he made those promises and I have every right to hold him accountable for failing to fulfill his obligations. Yet you give the man an excuse and claim that I am not seeing "nuances".

The fact is he promises to bring those responsible for 9/11 to justice, whom he said was bin Laden, and then Bush dismissed his promise. This has been typical of his time as a President.

You act very much like the government in power in Orwell's "1984" where negatives are supposed to mean positives and white becomes black. How unsettling that you refuse to judge a man by his words and actions and instead prefer to see a fiction as the truth.

The fact is Bush told us that he would get bin Laden and then changed his mind. I don't think that you would have the courage to tell a griving family that lost a loved one on 9/11 that they can't see Bush's "nuances" in his broken promises.

 

Do -you- believe it was bin laden or not?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Let me know if you need further help on this.

 

This thread is very heated and I am surprised by all of the name calling. If you have to resort to calling someone a name rather than persuing intellectual debate it only serves to illustrate your own lack of intelligence.

I served many years in the US military in Special Operations. I loved my unit, I love my country. I obeyed the president's order to go to Iraq and fulfilled my commitment to the US military. I got out last September for one reason only, the Bush administration. They have lied to the American people and use propaganda to keep them in fear will they quietly strip us of our constitutional rights; at the same time waging a war in the Middle East with an Agenda that the American people are not privy too.

It is my opinion that at the very least, there was some manipulation at the highest levels of our nation’s government that allowed the tragic events of September 11th to occur. This is not an opinion that was formed lightly or that has been easy come to terms with. It is no doubt one the hardest thing I have had to accept as it rocks the foundation of my beliefs in the government of this nation.

 

This is a very good post of yours and is an excellent example of how people are starting to wake up to the utter lies told by people like Bush and Cheney amongst many others to create this absolute disaster that we are in now.

You'll have to put up with the name calling in this P&R forum mate, there are two opposing sides, those that love Bush and the rest of the corrupt neocons and those that feel that Bush and the rest of the neocons are the biggest scumbags to ever walk this earth.

Amazingly you will more than likely be called a terrorist supporter by members here (like GTech & lorien amongst others) because you have spoken out against Bush. That is why I call them the "crazy gang."

 

It really appears that it is you that needs the help. You just quoted three paragraphs that Bush said back in March 2003, and this is what you're using to defend your position: "And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed."

Do you think al Qaida is destroyed now in 2007? Tell that to the people that died in the nightclub in Bali. Tell that to the people that lost loved ones in the subway attacks in London. Tell that to the families of the dead Iraqi and coalition troops that have been killed by al Qaida in the four years since Bush said all of those foolish words. Tell that to Michael Chertoff who has a "gut feeling" that something is about to happen.

Better yet, instead of parroting Bush's speech and showing us more examples of his ineptitude as proof of his "nuances", why don't you tell us why *YOU* don't think bringing Osama bin Laden to justice isn't a priority for the American people? Or would that require you to think independently too much?

Bush lied to every single family member who lost someone on 9/11. Any way you try to make it look like it's not important grievously injures the memories of every American that died on 9/11. The opinions of some anonymous person on a message board on the internet isn't worth spit in the wind but when the President of the United States does an about face and flip-flops on bringing to justice the mastermind behind the greatest attack upon American soil since Pearl Harbor, you damn well better believe that it makes me angry -- as it should every American that gives a damn about justice for lost souls.

Your spinning this into a larger issue is a weak attempt to draw criticism away from Bush's policies -- and in fact, it further exposes him as a deceitful leader. If you truly think al Qaida has been "marginalized" and bin Laden's network "destroyed" as Bush said in 2003 you're living in a fantasy world. Go talk to a soldier that's lost his eyesight, legs or arms in a roadside attack in Afghanistan or Iraq and see if he thinks al Qaida is "marginalized". Go ask the world's press who keep telling us that Iraq is sliding in a civil war due to al Qaida's actions.

Bush is accountable for his words and actions. The way you spin it, you think it wouldn't have been important if the Allies never stopped looking for Hitler. After all, why did it matter attacking Berlin when the war was practically over?

 

No treaty was signed; was it?

The allies did not get actual, real proof of Hitler's death until the soviet union collapsed. You know this, right?

Who claimed that AQ was destroyed? Anyone? No. They do not have a real country base of operation to work out of, do they? You cannot base success/failure on each incident. A lot of it has to do with individual countries and how they keep up with the situation.

The bali bombings were in 2002. The london bombers were a pre-existing cell in the UK. Killing OBL wouldn't have stopped those,would they?

I have a feeling, that if you weren't trying to make a point that you'd call this same quote fear mongering, wouldn't you?

Remind me how he lied? Bush certainly hasn't followed through like he should or been tough enough on pakistan to clean up the areas that have housed the taliban for years. But it's hard to argue those are lies. Poor policy, sure. But that's different, isn't it?

I'll ask again,
Do -you- believe it was bin laden or not?

 

Apparently this is a tough question for him. I've enjoyed chant's double standards for quite some time now.

 

Thank you for your service. A real shame about the rest.

 

If you need sissy cheerleaders when you go to war and risk your life for your country, you can always count on the pus*ies like Gtech and his gang to be around.

 

It truly is.

 

Yes I do, just as I know that the Allies assumed what was Hitler's corpse outside the Berlin bunker turned out to be another person. And I know about Operation Myth. And I know many people believed it was Hitler's corpse until a few years after WW2. So what? Are you trying to out-do me with your knowledge of history? How does that change what Bush said about getting bin Laden? I was making an allusion and you're trying to deflect my main point of my arguement -- which is about the promises broken by President Bush, remember? -- and now go off on a side tangent.

Continuing on:

Wrong. You've forgotten so soon the full quote that Bush said? Let me remind you, the one that you said showed us the "nuances" of what he was getting at?

"And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed." - Bush, your quote

Are you now going to downplay your quote from Bush to try and spin it that the President didn't mean al Qaida wasn't destroyed like he said? Or that there's a difference between being "marginalized" and "destroyed"?

Flip-flop, flip-flop. You and John Kerry appear to have something in common.

Oooh. Now it has to do with how the different countries handle the AQ threat! And AQ must not be that powerful because they don't have a "real country" to work out of, right?

AQ seems to be doing a pretty good job of operating in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Why aren't those individual countries keeping up with that problem? Oh, they are: we've got troops there. And it's still a problem.

Bush, 2003: "His network, his host government has been destroyed." 2007: AQ is killing and creating terror. Doesn't seem like his network was destroyed, does it?

Would it have curtailed some of the violence in Afghanistan or Iraq today? All I know is that it would have kept Bush's promise, but now you're trying to make it appear that promising justice to the relatives of 9/11's dead doesn't matter in the overall picture.

No, my main point -- which you like to keep dodging and evading -- is that Bush told us we would have bin Laden dead or alive. Then he changed his mind. You still haven't acknowledged that; instead you spin, deflect the arguement and try to distract away from this point. And I'm reminding you of it.

So what exactly is a lie to you then? Are you saying that Bush simply forgot about it?? When John Kerry brought the matter up in the presidental debates Bush couldn't remember making the promise. So, if I'm to understand this, the President forgets about bringing to justice the mastermind of 9/11 and he's supposed to get a pass???

Yes I do. Now how the hell does that change anything that I mentioned before?

You keep dodging my questions, I answer yours. I honestly believe that you agrue for the sake of arguing Lorien; I think that you're not interested in sifting through the data to see what the facts are, you debate because you believe by questioning the facts (and what Bush told the American people are facts, no matter how much you try to downplay his exact quotes) you can distract attention from the biggest hole in your defense of Bush. You've made up in your mind that Bush has done nothing wrong to the American people and not shortchanged his responsibility for bringing to justice the people that committed 9/11 even though his own very words and actions prove otherwise. These kinds of facts are admissable in a court of law and can convict people.

In any case, you've clearly demonstrated that you have no interest in sticking to my main issue of this arguement. It's not my job to convince you nor will I waste any more of my time explaining my side again as I think it's pretty clear by this point what it is that I'm stating. What I find disheartening is how far American politics have descended into religious dogma for some people. Back when Nixon was shown to be dishonest you had Republicans and Democrats calling for accountability to the American people. Today when an elected leader has done harm to the goodwill of the public all you hear is the drone of the far left or right pundits that refuse to see anything wrong. It reminds me of the die-hard communists from the cold war that refused to see any wrongdoings of the Soviet Union -- and look at what happened there.

In any case, I've answered all of your questions and you refuse to answer mine.

 

...just look for gworld cheering on al qaida.

 

I did not join the military for cheers. I did it because I love my country and the constitution of the United States. I would still risk my life to defend freedom of speech, even if I don't like what is being said. However, I can no longer take pride in wearing my uniform while I believe a corrupt administration is in office. In my opinion this administration has disgraced the men and women who risk their lives in the military to defend this nation.

 

You've answered your own argument. In 2002, his host government was destroyed. Sure, some elements of the taliban remain and always will. Is the same host government still in power?

What lie did Bush tell? Are you trying to compare a statement of fact from 2002, to 2007? In other words, you want to hold Bush accountable for not having a crystal ball to see into the future?

Your posts are weak. Very weak. Mostly just opinionated commentary with no substance to back them up.

 

Previously you said you got out. Are you out, or still in? What branch were you in?

 

You will be accused of being a terrorist supporter very soon if GTech stays true to form and remains with his M.O that he always uses.

Will be interesting to see if he does, he's usually like clockwork.

 

Not in the least bit. I reserve that for people such as yourself who willingly and openly admit to such.

I must admit though, I'm impressed to see you and gworld suddenly take interest in someone who claims to have served in the military. That's very, very unusual for you. Surely there must be some reason for your new interest?

 

I got out last September, and served in the US Army. I still have my dress greens hanging in my closet. Someday, if things change, I may go back in and wear them again.