Like Moore said on countdown, The right wing try to blur national health by arguing intricacies. But i don't see how any reasonable person can truly believe that free heath care at the point of use is better than health care that you have to pay for as you use it. Don't forget, We can still pay for separate health insurance and go private like americans do, But we also have a fall back system that is entirely free that everyone can use.
Yeah. It's free, except for the huge tax increases that would be enacted to fund it. I think my definition of "free" and yours is a little bit different. st0x, have you paid for anyone's medical bills? If you -really- care about the uninsured, you'd be willing to do that, wouldn't you?
I don't need to pay for anyones medical bills, It's all free at the point of use, That's the point. If anyone needs medical treatment they can go get it. And if they can afford private health insurance they can do that also, All private means is they may be seen a little sooner for non-urgent treatment and they have a nice room at the hostpital with maybe a fridge and a TV. I can't see how you can honestly say the american way is better.
I can't see how you can honestly say the socialist medicine way is better. British hospitals are refusing to service fat people, smokers, etc. Socialism and freedom don't mix. The costs aren't any better - the taxes simply replace the "point of use" payments. It's not free, in any sense of the word free. Yes, getting service quicker really sucks. Having a nice room. That sucks too. I'm shaking in anger! They already can. It's called emergency rooms. It's also called financing. No one can be turned away from emergency rooms. Maybe you don't understand this. Here's a good read on the state of single payer systems: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010266 Healthcare isn't a right. Rights don't demand anything of anyone else. Aren't Britain and other european countries starting to lean on private businesses more to deal with the health care industry? Socialized medicine doesn't work. It never has. Eventually, it'll go private again. It's already happening in Europe through slow steps.
I never said I wasn't a libertarian on some issues, did I? I'm an economic libertarian. I always have been. And, if you remember, I said that RP was great on domestic issues. It's his short sighted beaten wife foreign policy that I have issues with.
Maybe not 20k unless it is a compound fracture or something, but you can bet its pushing 10k this guy on webmaster world said it cost him 28k what if you get cancer that shit costs like 100s of thousands sometimes, my aunt has spent at least that much on her breast cancer
Is this just your opinion or do you have anything to support this? If you go to your regular doctor and get xrays, a cast, etal. It will not be costing you 10k. If you go to an emergency room, possibly. But again, we've already discussed this.
well my mother is a nurse, and last time I fell of something, and almost broke my arm, I called and asked it what it would have cost to fix it without insurance, actually here is this cost of a broken arm http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2006/04/07/GR2006040700882.html
Well we got anecdotal evidence from ferret! Excellent. Heh. Now, let's ask. If you fell and broke your arm, do you think that everyone else should pay a little to help get it fixed or do you think that it since - oh, I dunno - its your arm, that its your responsibility? Thanks for adding the picture. It proves every point I've been making doesnt it? You can't be turned away, so no one is dying the streets as you put it a few moments ago. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with the graph.
so if someone doesn't have money they should just set their arm themselves? is that what you are saying?
Did you read your own picture? No one gets turned away. We -already- foot the bill for it. Is it that difficult to understand? In a perfect world, everyone would buy their own insurance and it'd be covered that way. If people cannot afford it; there are options - financing, non-profit hospitals, etc. There are always solutions to problems, in a free market system. To say that we must have some sort of federal system, and its the only way to solve a problem, is silly.
but if you could have it your way would you prefer poor people just die, or stay sick, if they don't have money?
I love your over simplification, silly points you make. They are always good for a laugh. In a free market system, businesses could choose (see that magical word, choose) to offer low cost or free services if they wanted. It happens quite a bit already. non-profits could be setup that operate on donations. Your simplistic view on this is just making you look bad. Have you really thought thru the issue at all, Ferret? Again, if you break your arm and don't have insurance, should you (as the arm's owner) pay for it or should someone else foot that bill?
A cast only costs a few hundred dollars when you pay cash. I haven't done x-rays, but probably the same for X-rays. Again, if you pay CASH. Everything is much more expensive if you have insurance. Back in the USSR where I grew up we had forced free medical care and education for everyone. Both cost an arm and a leg and it resulted in miserable quality of life. We already have free education here in the US. Obviously public school costs taxpayers twice as much as private school, but half of the money disappears before it reaches the school, so the quality of education is the same. Same thing will happen with free medical care. You'll pay for it dearly and it will be worse quality. It's still one of the best countries to live, I don't think there is a single country left that still practices free market. Socialism is attractive and very popular among voters
If I was poor and could not afford to pay to fix my arm, I think it still should be fixed, even if someone else has to help pay for it this is the question lorien Do you think people who can't afford medical care should be untreated? If someone is poor should they just die if they get sick? a simple yes or no answer will be fine
And, in a free market system, there are ways this can happen too. There is financing available - almost every clinic/hospital handles this. There are also low cost centers where it happens too. If you break your arm, should you get out of it free? should all the cost be burdened by someone else or should you accept at least a little responsibility? No. There are ways to accomodate these situations without forcing everyone onto a federal system. Is that difficult to grasp? No. There are ways to accomodate these situations without forcing everyone onto a federal system. Is that difficult to grasp? So, if you break your arm (your favorite example) and can't afford treatment..how much (what %) of the cost should you bare yourself? None? 10%, 20%? How much of your situation is your responsibility? Since you care so much about this person with a broken arm, I'd hope you donate so of your extra cash onhand to make sure they get treatment. You do this, correct? And do you not acknowledge the concept of charitable organizations dealing with these things -today- ? Do you not grasp that hospitals (as private instituations) can offer reduced or free services if they want to? You are being purposefully obtuse here. Your examples are silly.
Poverty is a problem of socialized economy. In free market economy almost anyone is likely to have a job that will pay enough to pay for necessities like medical expenses. The problem with socialism is that government spending is notoriously inefficient and it hurts overall economy an quality of life.
I don't think there is such country anymore. America 100 years ago would be a good example. Before Social Security and income tax. When women didn't go to work because their husbands made enough to support family and no one had mortgage because they could afford to pay full amount in cash That's the problem with socialized economies, they lower quality of life to the degree that people can't afford necessities and need "insurance" in case they need them