Is there a single true Christian?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by qwestcommunications, Jun 19, 2007.

  1. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #61
    I'm referring to KJV. http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-bible-text/index.html
    How do you know which to refer to?
    The way you are referring, there is a huge difference between the KJV and your accounts.
    And anyway, doesn't inspired expression still refer to prophet? Because you have to try them?
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jun 20, 2007 IP
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    #62
    You can only go by the original transcripts (or as close as we can get to them), such as the Emphatic Diaglott.

    Inspired expression means an expression that is inspired. It is not a person as such. For example, an expression is a particular way of phrasing an idea. So, an inspired expression would be the same as saying "I was inspired by God to phrase that idea".

    You see, Jesus was talking about people (or false-prophets) that express ideas should be tested to see if they originate with God. This puts what he is saying in the correct context.

    Col :)
     
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  3. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #63
    Behind every true prophet of God is the Spirit of God.
    God is not the only spirit, Satan is a spirit and he has other wicked spirits working along with him as well as humans willingly or unknowingly doing his bidding.
    Hence when anyone claims to be a prophet (or others make that claim of him) then it is necessary to test the spirit behind him and his words.

    For example, note Jesus' words at Matthew 7:15-23:-
    "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
    "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
    "

    Many people today claim to serve God but what do their action show about the spirit behind them?

    "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient." (Ephesians 2:1,2)
    Do they murder or support murder?
    Do they obey Gods commandments?

    Testing the actions or 'fruits' of the one claiming to be from God will tell whether the Spirit of God is with him, or whether it is the spirit of Satan that moves him to words and actions.
     
    grandad, Jun 21, 2007 IP
  4. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #64
    Who do you think Jesus is referring to in these verses?

    Which version will God ask you about?
    And why did not God protect the Bible from impurities?
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jun 21, 2007 IP
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    #65
    All the ones who are showing they are worshiping God and showing to do works in HIS name, but proving false to their power. In other words, what they put on in display compared to what is in their hearts.

    No need to ask. He knows I have the right one. Otherwise, everything I see, feel and hear that displays God's love to me would break down all around. Have not seen anything like that happen to me yet. Nor, will it happen.

    No need. This with the right heart condition will see the truth in God's word. Also, they will endeavour to find accuracy in HIS word.

    It's all about the heart condition and the meekness of wanting to learn. To be meek also means to be teachable. If you don't show humility when you hear God's word, then how can you be meek and teachable?

    Col :)
     
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  6. alaska88

    alaska88 Peon

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    #66
    True christians? i don't think they exist, have you ever met a virgin non married christian girl? they are a rarity these days, nowhere to be found.
     
    alaska88, Jun 21, 2007 IP
  7. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #67
    I like your belief. But I think, there's more to and from God than the Bible. And that's the Quran. A book which God has preserved for more than 14 centuries.
    But even in the Quran, God says that among the Christians are people who are not arrogant and he'll send them to Paradise.
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jun 21, 2007 IP
  8. SuviCyriacNadakuzhackal

    SuviCyriacNadakuzhackal Well-Known Member

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    #68
    So you think being true christian is all about virginity.

    You forgot that one of the coolest things Jesus ever did was saving Mary Magdalene, a prostitute, from stoning. And she was the first one who saw him after his resurrection.
     
    SuviCyriacNadakuzhackal, Jun 21, 2007 IP
  9. alaska88

    alaska88 Peon

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    #69
    and after she saw him where did he go to ? i always wondered
     
    alaska88, Jun 21, 2007 IP
  10. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #70
    Then let us look at some of the fruits displayed by some who claim to follow the Quran.
    What does the Quran say about the divisions within Islam, for example the torture and murder being committed between fellow Muslims that we see so much between the Sunni and Shia Muslims of Iraq?
    What does the Quran say that Muslims should do toward those who torture and murder fellow Muslims?
    Should they speak out against such things as being not from God or should they remain silent and by their silence condone them?

    When the eminent Muslim politician in Pakistan recently said that the UK's honouring of Salmon Rushdie justified suicide bombings, what does the Quran say about things like that and how does it tell its followers to respond?
    Those who torture and murder or incite those things surely cannot represent the true God can they?
    Those who bomb innocent people or support those that do by their actions or silence cannot represent the true God can they?

    The bible is clear on these things, it says that by the 'fruits' these people display they are not from the true God - what does the Quran say?
     
    grandad, Jun 21, 2007 IP
  11. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #71
    I suppose you are again confusing 'westerner' with 'christian' common misconception on these forums. Not every westerner or American is a Christian. I have known many girls (and boys) who have stayed virgins until marriage and were Christians. It is rare, yes, but it does happen.

    Compare that back to a large religion where if you rape a girl you kill her to make it ok.... interesting how that works huh?
     
    debunked, Jun 21, 2007 IP
  12. Jackuul

    Jackuul Well-Known Member

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    #72
    To go drink a bud, watch the game, chill for a spell.
     
    Jackuul, Jun 21, 2007 IP
  13. SuviCyriacNadakuzhackal

    SuviCyriacNadakuzhackal Well-Known Member

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    #73
    You need not worry as they were both adults
     
    SuviCyriacNadakuzhackal, Jun 21, 2007 IP
  14. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #74
    *Sigh*
    I know. My head bows down with shame when I see many people claiming to be Muslims and following the Quran are doing stuff like that. But the Quran is absolutely clear about it.

    "Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidence, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!" (TMQ, 5:38)

    And the minister's statement is a controversial one. I'm against it.
    Even though, yesterday, Muslims scholars all over Pakistan unanimously gave a Fatwa that suicide bombings are un-Islamic and Haraam (strictly forbidden) in Islam.
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jun 22, 2007 IP
  15. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #75
    [60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

    And this too. :)
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jun 22, 2007 IP
  16. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #76
    Under the Law of Moses a murderer would be put to death, "'Do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer, who deserves to die. He must surely be put to death." (Numbers 35:31)

    In the Christian Congregation such a person would be removed, or expelled from the congregation, "God will judge those outside. 'Expel the wicked man from among you.'" (1 Corinthians 5:13)

    The fatwa that suicide bombings is un-Islamic is good, but with respect I would suggest that it does not go far enough. The religion that I belong to would remove an unrepentant murderer from its membership, that would be following Gods way of doing things as the above extracts demonstrate. It would be better for Muslims to indicate that suicide bombers and those who kidnap and murder, or encourage those things, will be removed from the faith.

    However, as for those claiming to be Muslims doing bad things, history is littered with people claiming to be Christians who do bad things - thus a 'claim' to be a worshipper of God is insufficient, as Jesus words that I quoted earlier clearly indicate.
    What is necessary is to be found doing Gods will, not just making claims about it.
     
    grandad, Jun 22, 2007 IP
  17. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #77
    Hmmm... But Moses pbuh committed murder, remember.

    He said: My Lord! Lo! I have wronged my soul, so forgive me. Then He forgave him. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful. (Qur'an 28:16, Pickthall)

    Anyway, there is no question of forgiving murder except if the murdered person's relatives forgive the murderer. Otherwise, capital punishment in Islam.
    And this is what we're doing in Pakistan- educating people about Islam and bringing the terrorists to justice.
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jun 22, 2007 IP
  18. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #78
    Indeed God is merciful, Moses was not the only murderer to be forgiven, so was David, for example - unlike us God can see into the heart of a person. However the unrepentant sinner has no place with God and should be removed from the congregation to keep the congregation spiritually clean and as an example to others (see above) - of course he can be accepted back if he truly repents and seeks forgiveness.
     
    grandad, Jun 22, 2007 IP
  19. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #79
    Indeed!
    Anyway, I just wanted to know what is the Gospel of Barnabas and what is its importance in Christianity?
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jun 23, 2007 IP
  20. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #80
    The Gospel of Barnabas is viewed by many as a forgery.
    The fact is that it does not form part of the sacred scriptures and therefore it is of no importance in Christianty.
     
    grandad, Jun 23, 2007 IP