@ Rebecca: Believing it to be murder should have nothing to do with religion. I bet you appreciate the law that says it's illegal for someone to kill you, and it has nothing to do with your religion or lack of, so why exactly is a "fetus" as pro-choicers like to call it, not considered a human being and entitled to the same rights? @ Gworld: When you say we would be responsible for a woman who got depressed because she had a baby and committed suicide, you are just transfering blame. What if somebody committs suicide because their girlfriend dumped them, is it her fault? That type of blame transference gets you nowhere.
Well first off, the reason it is called a fetus... is because after at the end of the eigth week following conception, thats what it is! Until that point, it is only an embryo, and not even a fetus. The reason it is not considered as a human being, is because it isn't! During the period of gestation, it is not a human being, hence isn't considered as one. Also, in reality comparing the deaths of an embryo/fetus and a human being, isn't really a very fair comparison... Because a human can survive without needing a specific person to care for them; a human is born, if it was concieved accidentally, then its parent's made the choice to keep it alive, as is there perogative. Those and hundreds of other reasons set the two apart. What if a homosexual teenager, comits suicide because they are afraid of what will happen if they come out and tell everyone they are gay? Is that the fault of a homophobic society, or their own fault? It is the fault of the homophobia in society for pushing someone to that extreme. If the girlfriend dumped the guy, and she felt that he had that strong an attachment to her, surely she shouldn't have dumped him, as doing so might have put her own life in front of someone else's life... I though you were all for women being slaves to other people?
I am not transferring the blame, you ARE responsible because you started a chain of events that can end up in murder and suicide. Depression after child birth is real and documented problem that even happens to women who have a child by choice, so it is not impossible that women who are FORCED to have a child will suffer from the same problem. If some one starts a fire and as a result a person dies, that person will be convicted for murder because the death was the result of arson. You can not claim that you will not have any responsibility, the same way that arsonist can not claim that I just started a fire and didn't think people will die.
Nope...not murder at all.......yeah DEFINITELY not a human being !! http://www.allianceforlifeministrie...cles/abortion/baby_sam_hand/baby_sam_hand.htm
Ah! So by that logic, we should have the right to kill Stephen Hawking. Again, you're just transferring blame. No one is responsible for someone elses actions. Freedom comes with great responsibility. The responsibility for your own actions is a basic one. If you start playing the blame game, you can use it to excuse any horrendous action that has been done. It wasn't Hitlers fault, it was the fault of the Jews for being so darn Jewish!
Huh? It doesn't seem like you are actually reading my posts. The only thing I have said in this entire thread that is remotely connected to religion is making a reference to the "moral majority". If it makes you feel any better, all pro-life people totally piss me off no matter what religion they are. As far as when a "fetus" as you like to call it becomes a human being that is a huge debate that will probably not be solved here. Is sperm 1/2 of a human being? Is it a human being when an egg becomes fertilized but has no human characteristics? Pick whatever you want to believe. But if I have something growing in my body I have the right to keep it there or not. And yes, I do believe people already born have more rights than an egg.
Oh, but what awful person put it in the mind of the arson to start the fire, or maybe made him so angry that he did it. Surely it's their fault then. But wait, shouldn't we keep going back...
You can try to avoid responsibility as much as you like but in the end, the blood of every mother or child that dies as result of you or people like you forcing a woman to continue with unwanted pregnancy will be on your hands.
There is no blood on Solutions hands...its not even in his in his mind. It's the mothers who do this that have to deal with it....not Solution unless they are having the abortion..? You honestly don't think it's a person ??? http://www.allianceforlifeministrie...cles/abortion/baby_sam_hand/baby_sam_hand.htm
If I put a gun to someone's back and force that person to run in to a highway, get hit by a car and die, will I be responsible or was it that person "free" choice to run in to the highway? You people "pretend" to care about a non-existent person right but you show no respect for living and breathing people's right. A fetus is not a person, no matter how many times you post that stupid link.
Glad I was able to clear that up for you! Please name the single specific person that is required for Stephen Hawking to live... Personally I thought that he didn't require a specific person to care for him... Oh well, I bow to your inability to read superior knowledge. You don't maybe see a pattern here... People are transferring blame onto the people who deserve the blame!!!
It's grabbing the doctors finger.....it has hands ..... maybe its a tree ! or better yet....if it has hands...and it can hold its hand out.....we can call it a democrat !!!
Wow, that's the closest thing to a point you've made so far. I actually had to think about this one. The difference is that when you force someone to kill themselves at gunpoint, it is a direct result of your actions. When you make a law that makes it harder for a person to be happy, but still leave them with the choice of making the best of it or giving up and killing themselves, you are not directly forcing them to do it. Let me give you an example of a few of those kind of laws which you would support: #1: Legal abortion without the consent of the father of the baby. What if he believes the fetus was really his son or daughter and he's so distraught that he kills himself? #2: High Taxes. What if someone is just struggling to get by, and they have to avoid paying their taxes because of an emergency abortion they "had" to have, and also got laid off, then they get audited and their property is confiscated and they end up homeless? That could drive a person to suicide. #3: Laws against drunk driving. What if someone is drunk at a party and they get a call from their wife that she is in trouble and needs his help right away. The guy jumps in his car and tries to get there, but he's pulled over. In the mean time, the wife at home is being murdered. The guy was so in love with his wife and distraught over the tragedy that he kills himself. Could go on and on...
When you force someone to have a child, you remove their free will and everything else is the direct result of your actions.