Ron Paul compounded his argument with the same knowledge of American history that was used when the 9/11 commission wrote its report on the September 11th attacks. He used the same knowledge the leading members of the intelligence community have been using for the past five years. Giuliani didn't address his argument, and relied on the crowd to identify with an emotional response. He lost the debate, no, correction, he didn't even take part in it, and the results of the phone in poll shows that.
The biggest problem as I see it is that Giuliani will play the 9/11 card to death and as you quite rightly pointed out the crowd were suckered. As much as it pains me to say so I think that Americas fake mayor will get the Republican call ahead of honest men like Ron Paul who actually cares about the American people and is not under the control of the neocons. It will be one disastrous candidate (Giuliani) versus another equally disastrous candidate (Clinton) and the disaster will continue. It's not a good sign mate to see the sheeple clapping him, even though most of the audience were carefully selected octogenarians.
Obviously you didn't see the clip where he got owned. Indeed, RP supporters were very organized and ready to vote. It's really quite impressive. You can find popular nutcase forums across the web with posts encouraging everyone to be read to vote. To this, I give them credit for coming together as a cohesive unit of sheep. In the end, RP got owned, his former aid was correct that he looks like a nut case, and the conspiracy sheep that alex jones has been pimping RP to will have short lived hope of a "blame America first" candidate. That is all.
Looks like RP is trying to play that card himself. For the benefit of those you support. This is called giving aid and comfort over here. His former aid seems to recognize that as well as he mentioned it was near treasonous.
RP used the beaten wife defense "we deserved it. we're sorry. we won't do it again" then wondered: what would happen if china started messing around in our neighborhood. News to Ron. They are. Cuba is letting them build oil refineries in the florida straights. I don't see us knocking down buildings in protest. Also News to Ron. The Soviets tried to park nukes off Florida in the 60's. Maybe he remembers it. We didn't knock down Soviet buildings in the process. News to Ron. We didn't bomb Iraq for 10 years. Iraq invaded Kuwait. We ousted Iraq from Kuwait and upheld UN sanctions. Also preventing Saddam from continuing to kill the Kurds. as I said, Ron's said knowledge of history was apparent. No wonder AGS, Briant and others think he's brilliant. He's as smart as they are
You mean the clip where Hannity tried to get Ron Paul to say Americans were the reason for the attacks? That clip had nothing in it that would hurt Ron Paul. All it showed was Hannity's narrow minded view on foreign policy and his inability to form a coherent argument without throwing strawman fallicies into the discussion. Ron Paul never suggested that Americans were the reason for the attacks. His whole argument was that aggressive foreign policy causes hate to breed in the Middle East. His argument is supported by the 9/11 Commission, James Fitzgerald, Michael Scheuer, and many other leading members of the intelligence community. Giuliani and Hannity's position is backed by nothing remotely intelligent. The only reason you think they're "winning" the debates is because they aren't even entering the debates to begin with. They're sitting on the outside of the discussion cherry picking statements Ron Paul makes so they can spin them into sound bytes that make him look like a terrorist supporter. The reality is that he's actually read the reports that have been written on the subject and he uses them when forming his arguments, unlike Giuliani, or Hannity. Again, the phone in poll shows that there is more support for Ron Paul's level headedness than there is for Giuliani's 9/11 nonsense. All you have to discredit that is speculation, which doesn't reflect well on your argument.
So your basis of analysis for RP is that his voters are better text messagers? Interesting. And that they are willing to give 99 cents/message for a meaningless poll. And this makes them smart as well. Doubly interesting.
You are most certainly entitled to that speculative opinion. RP was thoroughly owned, but I'm excited to see you are supporting the Republican party. Even if it's this particular nut.
This post is nonsense. You don't address anything he says, all you're doing is putting up strawman arguments to misconstrue what is actually being talked about. The China comment Ron Paul made was about military bases, not oil refineries. Do you actually think the two are similar? One is for commercial purposes, the other is for political presence. The 9/11 Commission and the leading members of the intelligence community found that the motivation behind terrorist attacks is aggressive foreign policy in the Middle East. Why is the US getting involved in the first place? They have their own problems to deal with, bombing brown people isn't going to fix anything and this has been proven time and time again. Ron Paul was correct, the West doesn't understand the political climate of the Middle East and getting involved is only going to create new enemies.
If you remember, some of the hijackers said they were in on the 9/11 thing because of Kosovo. Where the US was -defending- muslims. We didn't bomb "brown poeple" there and again, in 1991 we defended more muslims from the aggression of Saddam. As I said, your sad knowledge of history is equal to his. It's nice that you want to play the beaten wife defense still, but you are being very silly here. And here I thought I was addressing exactly what he said. Sorry dear! I didn't mean it. Please don't hit me again! As I said, the beaten wife defense.
You aren't understanding the argument. The West shouldn't be involving itself in these conflicts, period. Let them play out on their own, involvement brings the same outcome, along with more terrorist enemies. I mean hell, the US gave Saddam the weapons he used to attack the Kurds with. They also supported bin Laden when he resisted the Soviets, and now look where he is. What progress has been made with all of this nation building? Terrorists are still terrorists, the Middle East is still Hell on earth, and the US is spending away its money while problems at home are left unsolved.
Not according to Fox News. Of course you can insist on ignoring their poll all you like but it doesn't change the fact that tens of thousands of Fox News viewers (oh that right, they're "conspiracy sheep" according toyou) preferred Ron Paul over the other candidates. Keep labelling smart viewers as too dumb to make up their own minds about the candidates or calling them nutjobs and your side is going to be losing this election before it gets started. Debate the issues and stop smearing the name of the person. Grow up and act like someone that deserves to live in this country that good men and women died fighting to protect its liberty.
Fox has also played the video clip of RP getting owned. Are you suggesting that people are not aware that RP's sheep are not organized and launch campaigns to immediately vote in polls? I am excited for you in your support for a Republican and new found interest in Fox news, even though the only reason you are interested is because alex jones is pimping him out as a conspiracy nut! It's a beginning
No, actually, I completely understand what you are saying and I know what the argument is about. You are saying "screw them" to the people who are being killed, raped and towns/villages destroyed because of an infestation. You are okay to sit by and watch it happen. What you are saying is - Darfur/Rwanda/et al are the perfect examples of a properly executed foreign policy. Awesome! Is that why Japan, Germany and other countries we've had war with in the past hate our guts now. Thanks for the explanation! And your foreign policy ideas would have allowed Saddam to continue to exterminate these people. Didn't want to come across as bombing brown people, did we? I'm not sure of your point here. Also would have allowed him to keep Kuwait and continue killing those people instead. Possibly engulfed the whole region in war. This is RP's, yours and others problem. Short sighted foreign policy. Quit repeating a falsehood. We supported the northern alliance during the soviet invasion. The same group we put in power again in 2002 or 2003. The taliban didn't arrive until the 90's. Bin Laden had his own money during the soviet invasion and was, at best, a bit player in the whole situation. Seeing only very minor combat. You want to blame us for his creation; but he's a man of his own making. In the end, for some reason; you want to give OBL say over where the US puts its bases. Saudi Arabia can tell us to leave anytime it wants to. OBL is mad bases are there, in the holy land. Who gave him the authority to decide where our bases should go? I didn't mean to do it! I won't do it again. Please stop hitting me. This -is- an accurate description of yours, RP's, and others foreign policy.
Islamic terrorism has been going on for far longer than the United States has been in existence. Islamic terrorists murder Buddhists, Atheists, Hindu's, and other Muslims -- Christians are the recipients of only a small portion of Islamic violence. It is ridiculous to blame the U.S. or Israel for Islamic violence. Clearly, Islamic violence occurs globally, whether the U.S. or Israel exist or not. If both the U.S. and Israel are wiped off the map, Islamic violence will only increase. I am amazed that anyone can, with a straight face, put forth an argument which is so clearly wrong. Ron Paul is running for the Republican nomination. He won't win it with moronic statements like those. I understand his desire to isolate the United States from the rest of the world, but the realization of desire is limited by external reality. Ron Paul refuses to accept external reality, and that makes him unacceptable in a leadership role.
You mean the reality put forth in the 9/11 Commission report that Ron Paul thinks Guiliani should read? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy4Eugc0Xls
Isn't it cool how the 9/11 commission report is now the bible to truthers when it suits their needs? I love it
You can keep misrepresenting what Ron Paul has said all you want. The problem is that with the internet people can find out exactly what he has said. http://www.antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=2372 http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul200.html