Defrauded by someone here on the boards, thought PayPal would back me...

PayPal just screwed me on top of getting screwed by someone here on the boards. I need help. What can be done?

A few weeks ago I posted about getting ripped off by someone and what can be done with PayPal well I received an e-mail a few minutes ago after talking on the phone with a representative regarding my claim.

I bought a website from the guy here on DP, he did not send me anything, so I submitted a dispute to Paypal, then he elevated it to a claim and now before I know it I am out of 1k.

I'm so pissed off right now it is not even funny.

Wow...
Here are the claims. I need some help. I need to know is there anything more that can be done? Because this is B.S.

Original Claims:

(His claim

Will post his claim later paypal is effin timing out... how convenient.
He basically said he sent me a YPN invite (no idea where he got that from I clearly purchased a website from him or thought I was) and that he would give Paypal access to his e-mail so he could prove it.

(My First reply to his stupid claim):

Hi,
First off in response to the seller's most recent post. I would just
like to say I have not received anything. Below is proof that he is a
fraud, and I have not received anything what-so-ever from him. I have
chat logs, I have private messages from DigitalPoint (place where
transaction was initiated), etc...

Here is the MSN chat log between myself and the "seller" , I told him
to contact me via MSN, I am -jf; he is abdel713.....This took place
over a 12 hour period where the seller all of the sudden had to go and
didn't come back until about 11 hours later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
hello

+jf- says:
Hi

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
So?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
DP?

+jf- says:
yes.
jfontestad

+jf- says:
and you are?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
cool

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
mike

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
mikeleeproxy I mean

+jf- says:
?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
LyricsLook?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
the website

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
you made an offer

+jf- says:
Correct

+jf- says:
How's it going?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
great

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
you?

+jf- says:
Not too bad.

+jf- says:
Are you looking for a quick sale?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
yes

+jf- says:
I made an $800 bid on your site correct?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I have a few other projects i am working on

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
yes

+jf- says:
I noticed that you have quite a few sites up for sale

+jf- says:
With pretty good revenue.

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
yeah, I need the money badly now

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I am gettign rid of my sites

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I have a few more

+jf- says:
Well,
$800 PayPal right now for LyricsLook

+jf- says:
That includes all content database etc...

+jf- says:
domain...

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
anyways, is there anyway you can make it $1000

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
with escrow.com?

+jf- says:
err...

+jf- says:
I only have PayPal

+jf- says:
I'm a verified PaPal member

+jf- says:
20+ rep points.

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
hold on...

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
$900 paypal

+jf- says:
Ok,
I can do that.

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
Great

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
do you need anymore information?

+jf- says:
where is the site hosted.
will everything remain the same after the purchase.

+jf- says:
where are its incoming links from>

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
No

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
you must get your own host

+jf- says:
of course

+jf- says:
i have my own dedicated server

+jf- says:
i meant link wise

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
great

+jf- says:
all the backlinks etc...

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
links stay the same

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
most traffic is from search engines

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
so that won't ever change

+jf- says:
ok great

+jf- says:
is there anythng I should know?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
yeah, you need about an hour of freetime for the site

+jf- says:
a day?

+jf- says:
week

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
a week

+jf- says:
month?

+jf- says:
ok great

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
sorry

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
OK, thats about it

+jf- says:
will you give me the steps to updating it etc...

+jf- says:
?

+jf- says:
where is the domain registered?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
where are you from?

+jf- says:
USA

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
city?

+jf- says:
New Orleans

+jf- says:
Baton Rouge.

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
you need a free account on aplus.net

+jf- says:
what is that?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
so I can push the domain

+jf- says:
anyway you can push it to GoDaddy?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
no

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I can but it will take 3-4 days

+jf- says:
ok

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
is that alright?

+jf- says:
well let me get an account on aplus

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
OK

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
in the meantime, my paypal is

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:


+jf- says:
ok

+jf- says:
one thing

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
yes?

+jf- says:
if you want I can send 2 payments.

+jf- says:
right now i have 650+ in my payapal and that will be delivered immediately

+jf- says:
then i'll put the other 250 in a sep. payment, and it will be
delivered in a few days once everything clears

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I guess thats OK

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I willleave in about 30 mins

+jf- says:
Well I'm sending payment now

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
my internet connection is acting up.

+jf- says:
it's on its way

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
ok

+jf- says:
sent

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
let me check....

+jf- says:
can you tell me how to sign up to aplus.net?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
one sec

+jf- says:
do I have access to the site to download all the files and DB and what not?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
no, i will send them to you

+jf- says:
so what do we do now?

+jf- says:
i'm getting the aplus.net account

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
yes

+jf- says:
when will i be able to downoad the files?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I am uploading them

+jf- says:
great

+jf- says:
you there?

+jf- says:
Visitor48903: I do not have an account with you
Visitor48903: I'm purchasing a website and the person that I bought it
from has an account with you.
Visitor48903: and he/she will push it to my account with you
Visitor48903: and I'm trying to get an account with you
vladd: when that person contacts us to move the domain to a account
for you we will open a new one and give the information for it to

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
yes

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I know

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
i have to go be back in 2 hours, its very important

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
sorry

+jf- says:
well do you have a contact phone #?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
brb

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
please stay on MSN!

+jf- says:
I would like to contact you via phone.

The following message could not be delivered to all recipients:
I would like to contact you via phone.

+jf- says:
hey

+jf- says:
are you back?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
hello

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
hello?

+jf- says:
Hey

+jf- says:
Can we wrap the details up of the sale?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
yeah sure

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
my paypal email is

+jf- says:
i sent you the money

+jf- says:
Dear J Fontestad,


Your payment for $650.00 USD to has been sent.
+jf- says:
When everything is finalized I will send the remainder of the moneys

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
yes, but the site is $900

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
right?

+jf- says:
Correct

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I can't, how can I trust you?

+jf- says:
I already sent you $650

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I thought you said you would send it when you get it

+jf- says:
remainder $250 has just been sent

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
let me check...

+jf- says:
Now please lets proceed with finalizing this transaction

+jf- says:
?

The following message could not be delivered to all recipients:
?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Here below is the private message transaction log from the DigitalPoint forums.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
///My initial message///
Private Message: Offer for LyricsLook
Recipients: Moovs

Mar 25th 2007, 12:57 am

Offer for LyricsLook
Hey,
I'll give you $800 via PayPal right now if interested in selling lyrics look.
Let me know.
Regards,
J Fontestad

///Response from him///
Private Message: Re: Offer for LyricsLook

Mar 25th 2007, 7:56 am

Re: Offer for LyricsLook
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfontestad
Hey,
I'll give you $800 via PayPal right now if interested in selling lyrics look.
Let me know.
Regards,
J Fontestad
Do you have MSN?
lets talk!

///2nd message from me ///
Private Message: Re: Offer for LyricsLook
Recipients: Moovs

Mar 25th 2007, 10:44 am

Re: Offer for LyricsLook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moovs
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfontestad
Hey,
I'll give you $800 via PayPal right now if interested in selling lyrics look.
Let me know.
Regards,
J Fontestad
Do you have MSN?
lets talk!
Yes add me.

what's your MSN?

///3rd message from me///
Private Message: Still On?
Recipients: Moovs

Mar 25th 2007, 10:53 am

Still On?
I saw you online a few minutes ago.
What's your MSN?
Mine is
Thanks.

///4th message from me after I spoke with him the first time on MSN///
Private Message: Re: Offer for LyricsLook
Recipients: Moovs

Mar 25th 2007, 2:53 pm

Re: Offer for LyricsLook
It has been about 3 hours since I've spoken with you. You said you
would be back in 2. Please be aware how this looks very abnormal. If I
do not hear from you by the end of the day I will open a dispute claim
with PayPal and the funds will be placed back into my account.
This will only happen if I do not hear from you, as I am only trying
to protect myself.
Well please get in touch with me ASAP, whether it is via e-mail
(jfontestad@gmail.com) or MSN.
Thank You,
Regards,
J Fontestad

///5th message from me as it's been approximately 5 - 6 hours since i
last heard from him///
Private Message: Re: Offer for LyricsLook
Recipients: Moovs

Mar 25th 2007, 5:19 pm

Re: Offer for LyricsLook
Hi,
Can you please sign back on to MSN?
Thanks.

///7th message to him about an hour later from the last///

Private Message: Re: Offer for LyricsLook
Recipients: Moovs

Mar 25th 2007, 6:06 pm

Re: Offer for LyricsLook
I know you received my last message as I sent it with a message
confirmation receipt.
I do not know what is going on and why this seems a it shady. Please
contact me ASAP regarding the sale.
As I said before you can contact me via e-mail or via MSN.
Please let me know what is going on, so I can take steps to complete
this transaction or file a dispute with PayPal in order to get my
money back.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moovs
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfontestad
Hey,
I'll give you $800 via PayPal right now if interested in selling lyrics look.
Let me know.
Regards,
J Fontestad
Do you have MSN?
lets talk!

///8th message to him after still not hearing back from him///
Private Message: J Fontestad - LyricsLook.com
Recipients: Moovs

Mar 25th 2007, 10:44 pm

J Fontestad - LyricsLook.com
Well I see that you've been on here and are neglecting to respond to
any of my messages or get in contact with me in any way. So, if I
don't receive access to the site and the websites files by tomorrow
morning I will be filing a dispute with PayPal and make it known that
you are not a trustworthy seller.
I would really like to hear back from you, so please get in touch with
me ASAP. My e-mail is .
Regards,
J Fontestad

///The next morning 3/26/07 I wake up and find this in my DigitalPoint
inbox. from the seller///
Private Message: Re: J Fontestad - LyricsLook.com

Yesterday, 6:32 am

Re: J Fontestad - LyricsLook.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfontestad
Well I see that you've been on here and are neglecting to respond to
any of my messages or get in contact with me in any way. So, if I
don't receive access to the site and the websites files by tomorrow
morning I will be filing a dispute with PayPal and make it known that
you are not a trustworthy seller.
I would really like to hear back from you, so please get in touch with
me ASAP. My e-mail is .
Regards,
J Fontestad

I am transferring the domain to godaddy, since Aplus refuses a
transfer. Please wait while I get this done.

Thanks,

///I replied back with this///
Private Message: Re: J Fontestad - LyricsLook.com
Recipients: Moovs

Yesterday (3/26/07) , 9:38 am

Re: J Fontestad - LyricsLook.com
Why not just transfer it over to me?
I haven't received any sort of access to the site, any files, or any
notification of any sort regarding the site. I assumed that once the
money was sent out I assumed ownership of the site and it seems not to
have been the case. Please let me know where we stand with this.
Regards,
J Fontestad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moovs
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfontestad
Well I see that you've been on here and are neglecting to respond to
any of my messages or get in contact with me in any way. So, if I
don't receive access to the site and the websites files by tomorrow
morning I will be filing a dispute with PayPal and make it known that
you are not a trustworthy seller.
I would really like to hear back from you, so please get in touch with
me ASAP. My e-mail is .
Regards,
J Fontestad
I am transferring the domain to godaddy, since Aplus refuses a
transfer. Please wait while I get this done.

Thanks,

-------------That is the last that I heard from him, so I filed the
dispute after reading the following comments on
DigitalPoint-----------------------

This is another website he was selling over at digitalpoint
(http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=278153) As you can
see if you click on it it says USER BANNED (He was banned yesterday -
his username was moovs).
On the 2nd page of the thread you can find this post:
"Old Yesterday (3/26/07), 12:20 am
motoxcr17's Avatar
motoxcr17 motoxcr17 is offline
Berserker

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 185
iTrader: (6)
motoxcr17 is on a distinguished road
attention to all DP bidders, this seller is fraudulently selling this
site. I had interest in purchasing this site as well. I have spoken
with the owner of this thread who claims to be Mike from NYC, however
the site is registered to a Paul in minnesota. I have contacted paul
and he states the only place this site has been advertised for sale is
on sitepoint. Beware of this seller he is a scammer!
__________________
Bandoftheweek.com - Free Band Promotion!

Supplements.Net - Health and Fitness Superstore "

---------------------Then this is from the actual owner of the site
posted on that thread--------

"Old Yesterday (3/26/07), 9:30 am
Unkn0wnPlayer Unkn0wnPlayer is offline
Peon

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9
iTrader: (0)
Unkn0wnPlayer is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoxcr17 View Post
attention to all DP bidders, this seller is fraudulently selling this
site. I had interest in purchasing this site as well. I have spoken
with the owner of this thread who claims to be Mike from NYC, however
the site is registered to a Paul in minnesota. I have contacted paul
and he states the only place this site has been advertised for sale is
on sitepoint. Beware of this seller he is a scammer!
Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention.

Guys - I do have the site up for sale over at Sitepoint and have been
on vacation over the past week. The actual buy price is $39,500 and
the bidding starts at $15,000.

To the original poster - why would you try and pull something like this?

If anyone has any questions feel free to shoot me a PM here or on the
other forums (under this same username). You can also visit the
website and message me via the contact form. Thanks."

--------------------------One other thing that I noticed was that in
his initial post for selling LyricsLook.com (You can see the full
thread here http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=278155) he
signs off as Tom and not Mike as he stated to me in
MSN.----------------------


All I want is to receive my refund or to receive what I paid for. I
have yet to receive either. Any questions or more proof feel free to
e-mail me back or contact me as you all have my phone number. I've
been a member of PayPal for ~ 3 years now, so please help me out.


Thank You,
J Fontestad

 

######### Then I followed up with this response after the a-hole PM'd me######

Well to my surprise my "buddy" (the seller / scammer) logged on to MSN
Messenger and sent ME a msg. At first he did not know who I was, but I
reminded him. This took place today (4/2/2007 ~ 11:30am CST), just as
with the previous log I am +jf- (the buyer), he is
.... (seller):

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
hello

+jf- says:
look who it is

+jf- says:
can i help you?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
can you do me a favor please/

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
*?

+jf- says:
are you aware of whom you are speaking to?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
no

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
oh wait

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
I remember

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:


(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
silly me

+jf- says:
good.
because you tryed to scam me out of almost $1k

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
what do you mean I tried?

+jf- says:
oh so you did scam me out of $900?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
nopr

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
nope*

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
my friend works in paypal

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
you have no chance

+jf- says:
i have no chance?

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
of winning the dispute

+jf- says:
we will see.
if I loose the dispute I will take the matter to the authorites. and
have you arrested for fraud

(E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
haha, if you can ever get my name

+jf- says:
well we will see.


##### Then a few minutes ago I received this e-mail #######
Unfortunately, we were unable to resolve this claim in your favor because
the item purchased was virtual or intangible. As a result, we have not
taken any action against the seller at this time but we have noted your
dissatisfaction in the seller's record for future reference.

If you still have concerns about this transaction, we encourage you to
continue to work directly with the seller for an amicable resolution.

Thank you,

Protection Services Department

Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you
will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account
and click the Help link located in the top right corner of any page. If
your inquiry is regarding a claim, log in to your PayPal account and go to
the Resolution Center.

###

It's like WTF is going on?

I've been with PayPal for a long time now and they pull this shit on me.

Is there anything else that can be done?

 

Put dispute back in and copy this thread and also copy the info into the dispute. Also did you charge this on credit card through paypal? If so claim fraud. also claim fraud with Paypal tell them it is tangible because it was for domain and show it with this information it is proof.

Ask Shawn to give you ip of the user. Ban him from this site.

 

Sorry I think I have read it all correct, what did paypal say back to you?, did you phone paypal?

 

Phone paypal and tell them what has happened. Tell them you will give them any information they need to investigate and get your money back. If Shawn can send you the Ip address of the user and any other information on the user this may also help.

Can you post the domain name of the site you where buying please just want to do some searches on google ect.

 

Man I'm really sorry to read this. Even I've been a victim of scamming (though a much smaller amount - $128) thanks to paypal's weird rules.

And yeah, maybe it would help if you follow the post above by NetworkTown.Net...

 

I am trying to see if there is any information attached to his email...

So far on this page:
https://www.scriptlance.com/project...sl_ref&utm_medium=aff&utm_term=r_pleasehelpme

it says on his profile for that site that HER name is Elizabeth Rudnick

Could be made up though. Actually I'm pretty sure it is made up as Elizabeth Rudnick has written books and other things, and on top of that has a Phd.
http://www.google.com/search?source...8&rlz=1B2GGGL_en___US211&q=+Elizabeth+Rudnick

unlikely someone with such a high respectable figure would go about defrauding people.

 

I just got off the phone with them (PayPal) I spoke with a "Supervisor", she's like sorry there's nothing we can do. So I asked her "I can go ahead and replicate the same thing to get my money back (Referring to committing fraud) and there's nothing you can do to me?" she answered "Yes you would be able to".

I mean that is a bunch of BS.

 

He signed off as Victor. (scriptlance link)

So how would their name be Elizabeth?

 

That persons profile who made the SL job thing: https://www.scriptlance.com/cgi-bin/freelancers/buyers.cgi?view=vkoll8

I would bet both are lies. And the name might be a company, but you would figure google would come up with that first rather than a person if it was.

You can get paypal in trouble for encouraging you to fraud now, I think.

 

I found some more info on the guy via Google.

I found a phone no. and address on him.

I will be getting in touch with the DA's office.

I think I may have found out how he may have a verified account with PayPal.

Still looking into it though.

 

How/who did you look up via google? Victor? I'm just curious. If I can help in any way ask.

 

i looked up abdel713, and he defrauded someone else and they posted his info.

 

You would of thought he would of learned his lesson. I looked up the user name on yahoo too, but all I got was positive results and stuff and good things he has done. Nothing really negative.

I Shoulda done google =p.

Good luck with this, and get his ass in jail!

~D_C

 

If you mean a domain name is "tangible", it's not.

Here's possibly another avenue to explore, although I'm not sure if it helps:

www.ic3.gov

 

Well should I file for a complaint against PayPal for acknowledging the fact that fraudulent activity may be going on and knowing so not doing anything about it.

 

That guy abdel is a scammer. His previous nick was banned here and I had warned some members about him as well. It would be wise to report his current nick to the moderators.

are his other contact addresses.

He has also ripped members of other forums

http://talkgold.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113927

 

I can also suggest the police station fill in a fruad form or some sort im sure it will be much quicker that way. Is the prson living in the same country as you?

 

Call them again, and record the conversation this time. That way you are guarenteed vistory if you pursue it. We will see you on the news if you sue paypal =p.

 

yeahh, 1000 bucks is a lot of money to be scammed of. I hope for a miracle for you so you get your money back...