Christians are so hypocritical. What a Joke. Mocking every form of mythology which isn't your own, as if the christian mythology isn't as stupid.
Here are the American Jihadists known in America as freedom loving "patriots" out to save the world using peace.
Pretty much how it looks to the rest of the world. America, supporting peace with massive military firepower for decades!
You are absolutely correct. The Islamic civilization contributed greatly to the advancement of science (Maths, Medicine, Astronomy philosophy etc) you name it. But I think that they got to that glorious position mostly despite of Islam and not because of it. Just look at these great (rationalists/sceptics/atheists) names of that magnificent Islamic past: Al-Farabi/Ibn Sina(avicenna) "The Philosophers with whom al-Ghazali was chiefly concerned were those he calls `theistic’, above all, al-Farabi and Ibn Sina (Avicenna). Their philosophy was a form of Neoplatonism, sufficiently adapted to Islamic monotheism for them to claim to be Muslims.... To the great body of Muslims, however, some of their positions were unacceptable, because they tended to contradict principles essential to the daily life of believing Muslims." THE FAITH AND PRACTICE OF AL-GHAZALI By W. MONTGOMERY WATT http://www.ghazali.org/works/watt3.htm Al-razi: physician, philosopher, and scholar who made fundamental and enduring contributions to the fields of medicine, alchemy, and philosophy. Famous quote: “If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed†http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Razi Al-Sarakhsi: A great philosopher, who put into questioned the fundamental principle of Islamic belief . Was executed for that in 899. (Ibn Warraq-Why I am not a muslim p263) Avempace , Arabic Ibn Bajja: . Developing the tradition of Islamic Aristotelian-Neoplatonism begun in the east by al- Farabi , Avemplace was the first important Spanish representative of this philosophy. Among his chief opinions was a belief in the possibility in the union of the human soul with the Divine, which later commentators found to be heterodox. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Avempace.html Ibn Tufayl: Ibn Tufail was the author of Ḥayy bin YaqẓÄn ØÙŠ بن يقظان ("Alive son of Awake"): a philosophical romance and allegorical tale of a man who lives alone on an island and who, without contact with other human beings, discovers ultimate truth through a systematic process of reasoned inquiry. Hayy ultimately comes into contact with civilization and religion when he meets Absal. He determines that the trappings of religion, namely imagery and dependence on material goods, are necessary for the multitude in order that they might have decent lives. However, imagery and material goods are distractions from the truth and ought to be abandoned by those whose reason recognizes that they are distractions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Tufail Ibn Rushd (Averroes) was a philosopher and physician, a master of philosophy and Islamic law, mathematics, and medicine: the end of the 12th century, following the Almohads conquest of Al-Andalus, his political career was ended. Averroes' strictly rationalist views which collided with those of Islamic orthodoxy had caused Yusef al-Mansur to banish him though he had previously appointed him his personal physician. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes al-Ma'arri: was a blind Arab[1] philosopher poet and writer. Some of his famous quotes and poems : “The world holds two classes of men—intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence.†He added: "Do not suppose the statements of the prophets to be true. Men lived comfortably till they came and spoiled life. The "sacred books" are only such a set of idle tales as any age could have and indeed did actually produce." also: The Prophets, too, among us come to teach, Are one with those who from the pulpit preach; They pray, and slay, and pass away, and yet Our ills are as the pebbles on the beach. Mohammed or Messiah! Hear thou me, The truth entire nor here nor there can be; How should our God who made the sun and the moon Give all his light to One, I cannot see. http://www.humanistictexts.org/al_ma'arri.htm Omar Khayyam was a Persian poet, mathematician, philosopher and astronomer. He is best known for the collection of poetry, the He said: Alike for those who for TO-DAY prepare, And that after a TO-MORROW stare, A Muezzin from the Tower of Darkness cries "Fools! your reward is neither Here nor There!" Why, all the Saints and Sages who discuss'd Of the Two Worlds so learnedly, are thrust Like foolish Prophets forth; their Words to Scorn Are scatter'd, and their mouths are stopt with Dust. Oh, come with old Khayyam, and leave the Wise To talk; one thing is certain, that Life flies; One thing is certain, and the Rest is Lies; The Flower that once has blown for ever dies.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khayy%C3%A1m al-Biruni: Possessing a profound and original mind of encyclopaedic scope... He applied his talents in many fields of knowledge, excelling particularly in astronomy, mathematics, chronology, physics, medicine, and history. He corresponded with the great philosopher Ibn Sina (Avicenna). Some time after 1017 he went to India and made a comprehensive study of its culture. Later he settled at Ghazna in Afghanistan. In religion he was a Shi'ite Muslim, but with agnostic tendencies. http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9015394/al-Biruni There are many more names that can easily be listed. I don’t say that there aren’t equally important names that contributed greatly to the Islamic civilization which were deeply religions who looked in the quran for inspiration. However one cannot in big part attribute the holy scriptures to the advances of science. I think that rationalism and freethinking are the only light left that can been seen in a deeply dark tunnel. Hopefully we won't deviate any more from the main topic about "flat earth" in the quran.
I agree with you totally. George Orwell called this kind of thinking "Doublethink". He defined it as follow: "The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. ... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies—all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth." Do you get what I mean?
I get it. 1984 is one of my favorite books of all time. And yes, I have found that the religious are the most prone to double think of any type of people on earth. For instance, most of the double think story in 1984 comes down to 2 + 2 = 5 or 4 depending on what Big Brother says. Then consider that most Christians believe that they are a monotheistic religion which follows 1 or 3 Gods, depending on what they are talking about. They can't rationally justify that position, but constantly refer to there being one god, with three parts each individual, yet all part of the same thing. How can you have 3 distinct individuals, yet one whole individual? Only with the powers of double think!
But Arabs did not have any civilization before prophet Mohammad came, it's Islam that caused this scientific revolution. The Koran is just full of verses that encourage us to think about the universe and ourselves and even give hints about how the universe and creatures were created. Refer to this site for many books about how Islam and Koran talk about and encourage knowledge and science. http://www.harunyahya.com/ There are also many Hadiths by Prophet Mohammad that encourages us to seek knowledge. One of the most famous of those Hadiths is " Seek knowledge even if you have to go to China"
I keep forgetting that God has be rational by human standards. Are you an expert on quantum mechanics as well?
A follow-up from my previous message: ---------------------------------------- Zakir Naik Qur’an says that Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet. This gives an indication that the earth is flat. Does this not contradict established modern science? bonjour 1. Earth made as a carpet The question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in Surah Nuh: "And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 19 But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says: "That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 20 A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa: "He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)...." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 20, Verse 53 The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Qur’an rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths. I honestly can’t see the link here between these simple words “Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out)." To mean just the top layer of the planetary crust of the earth! Kafer: Even if we accept his unique comments about this sura for the spread out to mean the crust. Does this prove that it's a curved spherical Earth? Mohammed was addressing his people at the time with their language and not with the language of today. The meaning of the used words were what his audience understood them to be. One of the old prominent commentators of the quran, Ibn Kathir Explained what the suras meant as follow(quite simple and clear) Tafsir Ibn Kathir http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=71&tid=55394 2. Carpet can also be spread on other than an absolute flat surface Not a single verse of the Qur’an says that the earth is flat. The Qur’an only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet. Kafer: I want to see verses in the quran that say that the earth was round, spherical, moving, or orbiting the sun. Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Qur’an describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Qur’an is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later. The Qur’an doesn’t describe the earth crust as a carpet. It describes the whole earth as a carpet. Kafer: What a big and unfounded statement “The Qur’an is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later. “ I have so far seen only words abuse and meanings twisting. 3. Earth has been spread out Similarly, the Qur’an says in several verses that the earth has been spread out. "And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 51, Verse 48 Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse: "Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse. And the mountains as pegs?" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 78, Verse 6-7 None of these verses of the Qur’an contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Qur’an says: "O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 29, Verse 56 Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances. Kafer: All these words that commonly appear in the quran when it talks about earth (Spread out, as carpet, as bed, expanse, couch). How can anyone understand from these words that the shape of the planet is a globe? Look at what classical commentator had to say about this sura: Note the line in Red Tafsir GALALEEN ________________________________________ http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=88&tAyahNo=20&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0 Arabic version : http://www.tafsir.com/ http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=GALALEEN&nType=1&nSora=88&nAya=20 Perhaps this was their concept too about the univese: 4. Earth is geospherical in shape The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: "And we have made the earth egg shaped". The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 79, Verse 30 The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth. Kafer: The Quran does not mention that the actual shape of the earth is egg shaped. This is his fancy invention. Al-udhuwwa is the place where an ostrich lays its egg and not the egg itself. Daha دَØَا means spread out level off and level This guy is twisting the meaning of all words! Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony. Kafer: This is his wishful dream!
Furthermore: Somebody has asked a scientist about whether the earth is Egg-shaped: See the reply below: Earth: Round or Egg-shaped Question: Well, I was wondering about the Earth. Well, I would like to know if the Earth is really not round, but elliptical as some say. jason p brechin Answer: The Earth is not quite spherical, due to what is know as "rotational flattening." It's not egg-shaped, either, it's shaped more like a pumpkin. The radius of the Earth at the equator is 6,378 km; at the poles it is 6,356 km. Jupiter, which rotates once every 10 hours, is even much squashed than the Earth. Jupiter's equatorial radius is 70,850 km; it's polar radius is 66,550 km. richard a gerber http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/ast99/ast99162.htm
Why I think that the prophet of Islam didn’t have a clue that the earth orbits the sun. Even though he claimed to have travelled to the heavens, riding the Buraq ( A horse like animal with wings) and spoke to god during the Isra and Miraj (Night Journey). 1. [Ramdan] [a]He didn’t know about the polar regions (the polar "day" is almost nonexistent in the winter), Obviously fasting is impossible in that region. Probably he wasn’t aware that the moon's visibility varies with time and location, hence causing a huge problem on when to begin the fasting of Ramadan. [c]Observing the night of power (leyalt al qadr*) that occurs on the night of one of the odd days during the last ten days of Ramadan. Although it is widely believed to fall on the 27th day of Ramadan. Now which 27th night is it? If you start Ramadan 1 day earlier, the night of power would be 26th night for other regions. *(leyalt al qadr is the night when the gates of heaven are wide open and Allah will listen to the lucky ones who encounter it). [d]The qibla in Mecca, the direction which Muslims face during prayer. In my opinion to face the qibla directly while standing straight is impossible in some regions given the spherical shape of the earth. In a flat earth (in opened earth map) you can position yourself to directly face the qibla from anywhere in the world. 2.[I don’t see the sun at night! ] [a]Where does it go? Hadith in http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.421 [Where does it set?] It sets in a spring of murky water: [c] [The rising of the sun:]
It was coded in the koran that the turtle was on the moon. Not the fake moon that is reflected in the sky but the real one. I am the turtlist!