Forget about PR? I think not and heres why

Discussion in 'Google' started by wozzaofrare, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. w3bmaster

    w3bmaster Notable Member

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    #21
    Man you are confused
     
    w3bmaster, Apr 24, 2007 IP
  2. m0rtal

    m0rtal Well-Known Member

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    #22
    Those statements are completely false, I've outranked Google video for certain terms when my site had no PR....
     
    m0rtal, Apr 24, 2007 IP
  3. jquindlen

    jquindlen Notable Member

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    #23
    It's well known that the public PR is simply a snapshot of a site's PR exported to the datacenters. Real PR, not the toolbar variety is constantly being updated, and plays a major role in SERPs. However toolbar PR is more of a recent historical landmark that tells you the site's previous PR, not it's true, up to date PR.

    So ignore toolbar PR, and focus on building quality links (which will increase your PR and your SERPs.) The person that gave you the initial advice was totally correct.
     
    jquindlen, Apr 24, 2007 IP
  4. wozzaofrare

    wozzaofrare Active Member

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    #24
    no most of you who disagree are wrong or have misread my post

    for those that said lower page rank can beat pages with highher page rank I am not denying this and have many sites doing this myself.

    My statement is that a new site with zero page rank has a hell of a time competiting with wikipedia, higher page ranked websites and anything else established by google with a PR for a COMPETITIVE term

    that lord of the rings example is clearly not a competitive term at all

    without a proper google dance and page rank update, no matter how many back links you have, your site will never beat the higher end sites for COMPETITIVE terms in the serps

    prove me wrong with a real example for a real competitive term for a real page rank zero website
     
    wozzaofrare, Apr 24, 2007 IP
  5. motoxxx

    motoxxx Peon

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    #25
    Define what you would call competitive terms?
     
    motoxxx, Apr 24, 2007 IP
  6. wacamoi

    wacamoi Peon

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    #26
    Nice thread.

    The problem is I cannot forget about PR.

    just a joke

    : )
     
    wacamoi, Apr 24, 2007 IP
  7. jakomo

    jakomo Well-Known Member

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    #27
    Hello,

    If you have win a PR6 with just one PR6 link for a comptetive keyword like Travel insurance, forget to rank top ten in Google :)

    PR <> Serp, for me
    Best,
    Jakomo
     
    jakomo, Apr 24, 2007 IP
  8. m0rtal

    m0rtal Well-Known Member

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    #28
    I think your post was misunderstood or just not very clear. But also, it would be good if you could define competitive for you.

    Obviously if you are talking about insurance or debt then it's a no brainer that you won't rank for those terms for atleast a few years if you even have the money to market a site like that. There's no point even talking about backlinks or PR for those kind of terms, good luck.

    However, although it would be hard to prove to you, if you had a competitive keyword but all the sites sucked large on their SEO I think it's theoretically possible to outrank them quickly before any update.

    Take for example site 1-10 - all 3+ years old - 100-500 back links each MAX and PR2-PR4s ranking for a highly competitive term. Their on site SEO sucks large and 100-500 back links isn't all that much.

    You start up your site do proper on site SEO and a massive linking campaign and in under 3 months you can outrank them.
     
    m0rtal, Apr 24, 2007 IP
  9. jimkarter

    jimkarter Notable Member

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    #29
    I think PR is ONE of the MANY factors in determining the ranking. But I also assume that this is one of the biggest factor as well. So if your other factors can do much better than the PR factor of other website, then it can come on top of that.
     
    jimkarter, Apr 24, 2007 IP
  10. jquindlen

    jquindlen Notable Member

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    #30
    I understand what you're saying. Still, that doesn't change the fact that link building is what drives PR. Forget about PR and just build strong backlinks. It kills two birds with one stone.

    Oh yeah, and the backlinks are exported just like PR. Backlinks are constantly updated, just as PR is. Backlink exports and PR exports are both worthless except as a barometer.
     
    jquindlen, Apr 24, 2007 IP
  11. Janna122003

    Janna122003 Banned

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    #31

    PR has no effect on SERP. If you want to improved rankings get more related and quality site. Webmaster use PR for link exchange to get more relevant links. The site needs higher PR because some webmaster believe that PR is still important. But the truth is you can get better position even you have PR0 as long as you optimized your site well.
     
    Janna122003, Apr 25, 2007 IP
  12. wozzaofrare

    wozzaofrare Active Member

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    #32
    excellent points for sure

    the big thing I would like to express is that a page rank update is a 'final step' that makes all those back links and on page seo 'work' so that you reall can rank for these competitive search terms. Without this final step, think of your site as still dormant...
     
    wozzaofrare, Apr 25, 2007 IP
  13. howard

    howard Well-Known Member

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    #33
    If you mean a page with toolbar PR 0 cannot get higher search rankings than another page with toolbar PR above 0, then you're wrong. A 3-minute analysis of search results could probably show you this.

    I agree that PR is important - all other things being equal, pages with higher PR will rank higher - but there are many, many other things besides increasing PR that can be done to improve a page or a site's ranking.

    Howard
     
    howard, Apr 25, 2007 IP
  14. jquindlen

    jquindlen Notable Member

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    #34
    I disagree. The PR update is nothing. It has no real bearing. PR is updated daily. In early 2006 Google went over 4 months without exporting PR. During that time period, real PR was changing daily, along with the SERPs. Backlinks are also updated daily, but only rarely exported. The PR export isn't the "final step" that makes it work as you say. The PR export is simply a snapshot of PR at a certain time period. There's evidence that suggests that even at the time the toolbar PR export finally happens, it is already out dated.

    For example, I've been fighting for a competitive term for over a year and a half. Until a few weeks ago, I ranked 49th. Now, without any PR export, I rank 8th. Also, Google Sitemaps (which I stopped using a few weeks ago) shows that my highest PR pages are one's that have PR0 on the toolbar. My site's a toobar PR3 and I'm beating toolbar PR6 sites who are targeting the exact same keywords (their titles, meta tags, and backlinks are focusing on the same terms.)

    So yeah, toolbar PR is worthless. Just build a quality site, and focus on getting thousands upon thousands of quality backlinks and you can't lose.
     
    jquindlen, Apr 25, 2007 IP
  15. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #35
    Completely wrong...You have real issues with correlation.

    You gave Wikipedia as an example. They don't rank high because they have high PR. They rank high and have high PR because of loads of links. There is a HUGE difference between those two statements.
     
    yfs1, Apr 25, 2007 IP
  16. Tiggi

    Tiggi Active Member

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    #36
    This is the opinion that I embrace too. I don't know a person yet who knows exactly the search engines algo and I what I see from some working well websites is that PR is just of many factors which determine SERPs. Judging from all the examples above, showing evidence that not so highly ranked sites may appear on google page one, makes me even more stable in my view. Obviously, PR is of relative but not absolute value in SEO.
     
    Tiggi, Apr 25, 2007 IP
  17. uzair

    uzair Peon

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    #37
    maybe having a good PR can outranked other sites that have PR 0 in the serps but my site is also had PR 0 and receive almost 200 visitors average a day and currently my bandwith almost exceed 5 GB.
     
    uzair, Apr 25, 2007 IP
  18. Mantisby

    Mantisby Guest

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    #38
    it is still up but dying. although many people have already buried it :)
     
    Mantisby, Apr 25, 2007 IP
  19. tbarr60

    tbarr60 Notable Member

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    #39
    OK, let's wrap this debate up in the next 15 minutes. "PR is worthless" you have 5 minutes for final arguments followed by "PR is very important" with 5 and then you each have a 2 and a half minute closing statement.

    After the conclusion our audience will decide. Let's wrap this thing up. :rolleyes:
     
    tbarr60, Apr 25, 2007 IP
  20. dcristo

    dcristo Illustrious Member

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    #40
    PR is meaningful if you ask me, serves as a QUICK guide to determing the link profile of a site
     
    dcristo, Apr 25, 2007 IP