What is your reasoning on these Verses from the Kuran?

100% agreed that Allah Detests Liars.

May Allah Guide all of Us to the Right Path (amen), The real Path of all the Messenges (p.b.u.t)

~ Postingpays

 

The answer lies here. It requires knowledge to understand it. (Jesus often spoke with symbols.)
Will you understand it? May be yes may be not.

 

So you understand fully what Quran says or Holy prophet says.....huh?
presenting verses out of context and trying to give meanings what you want is pretty old technique of bashers of Islam.

Rememebr, Quran is same and as it is for over 1400 years and if it was weaken inany sense, it could not have been trusted by over a billion people.....

Now dont say that all muslims are illetrate.....

someone saying that people will leave Islam as they will get education.......dude you need some education and need to be more matured in making statments on others. Mulsims have highly educated people in any field of life...

 

Some of you are happy with living in the 7th century of Dar Al-Islam, but that percentage is shrinking every year.



Egads! I should probably leave that explanation to one of the Christians.

Debunked is probably the most knowledgeable Christian theologian here. Let's hope he stumbles onto this topic.

In brief, and in case Debunked doesn't show up, what it means is that the Old Testament was a contract between God and the Jews and that this contract is no longer in force because Jesus replaced it with a new contract for all humans. This new contract is described in the New Testament The Old Testament is studied for purely historical reasons.[/quote]

I take that as a compliment Will, you have shown to have the basic understanding of what many Christians believe.

The Old Testament was actually all about Jesus and His coming. The Jews even understand this, except that they don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah (yet ) Jesus fulfilled the laws, He completed them. He even paid the price for all of those who transgressed the laws. At the same time Jesus showed those who thought they had upheld the law that they didn't - ie. He explained that even thinking of another woman in a sexual way was committing adultery. Jesus showed us that we all failed the law and He was perfect.

The funny thing is no matter how you explain these things to the muslims on this forum, they will just bring up the next false assumption and ignore the answer and it goes on until they shut up and the next one starts the list. Just look at menji's posts to see how it all goes down...

Usually ends up with a victim card (even though they are trying to attack God, who doesn't need a defense) or something about the war in Iraq being a Christian crusade and that all Americans are Christian, etc...

 

And yet it is and it is.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

2.1 Billion Christians
1.3 Billion Islamists
1.1 Billion Athiests/Nonreligious/etc

Since the Quran directly attacks the credibility of the Bible then if 1.3 Billion Islamists are right then 2.1 Billion Christians are wrong.

But by your logic, > 1.0 Billion == TRUTH

Since Christianity and Islam are contradictory as the Quran says then by your logic, two contradictory religions are TRUTH. And since there are over a billion people who reject the existance of God outright then by your logic God does exist and does not exist.

And that is why Islam fails. The Bible talks about "reasoning" with unbelievers in order to bring them to faith. In other words, using logic to convince people of the Bible. Where does the Quran talk about using logic to convince people of things? And if it does, why are you rejecting the Quran with your silliness?

You still havn't explained how being human has anything to do with the Jewish and Christian belief that we are children of God.

 

You need to be more matured to discuss such things....Religion is not math that you will conclude results like 2+2=4...

I try to put something in your mind again but i am afraid i will be any successfull. What i was referring by saying 1 billion muslims was Quran has never changed a bit for 1400 and plus years.... and beleived by 1 billion people now. if it was weaken it would have been changed number of times like the books of christians and jews. But the fact is Quran is the only book which is never changed a bit, not a single word. if it was weaken it could not hold its authenticity and originiality.

choosing religion on the basis of numebr of followers is simply ignorance (which you posses a lot).

 

astire, the point you seemed to miss was that KalvinB was simply using your logic.

You insulted his argument, which was really your own argument. You insulted him for using that argument, which really means that you insulted yourself.

I recommend that you re-read the last few posts in this thread until you understand what happened.

 

that was not my logic to conclude that islam is true since its beleived by over a billion people. it was never my stance....

I was refering towards the fact of "Quran being not changed by a bit unlike other holy books"

since someone was saying that muslims willl leave Islam after getting education, and to response him i quoted that there are a billion people who trust quran (authenticity that its word by word from Allah(swt)).
plus i said that dont say that there are no educated people in that 1 billion people....

so how come he use my logic to tell me that there are more peole following christianity....yes there are but thats not the point of debate. you cant follow a religion onthe basis of how many are its followers....can you?

 

astire, the line that KalvinB quoted and then played out was "and if it was weaken inany sense, it could not have been trusted by over a billion people."

From that quote, it is reasonable to conclude that you are arguing that you can follow a religion on the basis of how many followers it has. Later, you flame that very same argument. Then, you appear to use it again. Then, you flame it again.

It is difficult to understand what you are arguing in this thread. Let me try a question:

Q. Do you believe that the number of Muslims who trust the Koran has any bearing on its possible strength, weakness, truthfulness, relevance, or divinity?

 

the problem arises when you pick a line from the context and try to amke a decisionon the basis of that line. that line has a context which clarify every thing....

I again say, number of beleivers is not a parameter of the authenticity of a religion......

my line which you picked was "if it(quran) was weaken it cant be trusted by over a billion people"
now if you take this line in complete context it will say "if it was weaken how come a billionpeople can trust on it since its old about 1400 years....if it was weaken it might be changed like the other holy books"

i was pointing the fact that Quran is not changed by a single word unlike other holy books. I mean a weak book (not whole religion) cant make people fool for over 1400 years and to 1 billion people....

now tell me is there any other book which is trusted and beleived that its word by word from Allah by a billion people?

 

ARGRHGHRHGHRHGHRHGHRHGHRHG... QUIT USING THAT ARGUMENT -or- QUIT DENYING THAT ARGUMENT. MAKE UP YOUR MIND.

 

you are missing the point.....relaxe and re consider....

I dont beleive the number of followeres is a parameter of the authenticity of the religion....period....


I do beleive that you cant fool a lot of people over a fake thing.......period...

Any religion is not fake and doubtfull....All religions have their firm grounds.....

But there is only one book in its actual shape not changed for a single bit......and that is holy Quran......

All other holy books are cganged over the time.......

There is the difference what i am trying to say (may be not properly since English is not my primary language) and kelvinB resulted from my sentence.....

 

What answers do you expect? You won't get more than this:

Better leave them alone with their huge wisdom and sensational 3 google queries to figure out.. everything knowledge.

 

But like almost every muslim so far on this forum you are comparing to the unchanging Word of God - the Bible. and like every other muslim so far this false assumption (based off a website I'm betting) is just that a false arguement. The Bible has stayed true for more that 1400 years. Got that MORE THAN 1400 years. Also the people here are actually hoping that the koran would change, if about half of the evil verses where changed it may not be so bad anymore.

Telling people the koran hasn't changed is like saying a wife beater has changed in 50 years, well isn't it about time that it does?

But anyways back on "the other Holy books" like the Bible, the living Word of God, can you find something that has changed?

 

but its not....A man wrote the book, not God...just like the Bible (except the Bible is the inspired Word of God, we could get into this theology more if you like)....furthermore, more than 3 billion people (Christians, Jews, Atheists, etc.) consider the Koran to NOT be the inspired word of God...what does that have to say about your book?

The Old Testament has stayed true for way longer than that...after all, Jesus came to fulfill the Law given to Moses by God.

 

Thats not true...the beleivers of quran beleives that Quran is word by word from Allah and holy prophet (pbuh) is messenger of the Allah. your reasoning is wrong by saying that 3 billion people dont beleive on Quran...yes true they dont beleive because they are not muslims but in other religions followers of those religions dont beleive that their holy book is word by word from God....

my question remains, is there any book today which claim to be 100% word by word from God even by the beleivers of that religion?
Do you beleive on old testament ?

 

I still believe those 1bln are wrong to believe it is OK for a man in his 50's to marry and have sex with a 9 year old girl; who believe it is OK to wage wars for years just to go to a certain place to pray. I have read a number of spiritual books (Christian and non Christian) and have not met any of that kind of behavior from Spiritual Teachers. This example of a "perfect" man to all those 1bln people that one has to follow is not for me. Oftentimes the Quran is used from muslims as an example to wage wars and terror. Sorry.

 

Inspired by the Holy Spirit, it is the Bible.

Why has Allah changed, within a short period of time only, - the Quran?

I know of the Medina version and Meccah version.
Are both the last version? I just don't get it.

Sure there are many more now, so which one is the right one, since there are quite some distinct differences.

 

So you are now saying God wrote the koran? Wasn't it mohamad or alah who wrote it?

Now if you say God wrote it, does that mean he physically wrote the words on something? That would be like when God (the one True living God) wrote on the first tablets the ten commandments.

Or are you saying that God or alah (which one are you talking about now) wrote using a man's hand such as this guy mohamad?

BTW, even if you can clarify what you are saying, you are still wrong if you think God wrote the koran, because it is so opposite of what He has taught through the many years before the koran came into existance.

 

[QUOTe ] Originally Posted by astire
....the beleivers of quran beleives that Quran is word by word from Allah and holy prophet (pbuh) is messenger of the Allah . ....[/QUOTE]

It is true that Muhammad was illiterate right?

Then, why is the Quran word by word from God? How could Muhammad verify what its writers wrote in the quran?

Don't you think a messenger of God, who is supposed to be an example to others should at least know how to read and write?