Next President of the United States?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by alstar70, Mar 20, 2007.

  1. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #41
    Those sites are mainly for me. If other people want to look at them too, that's fine. :)

    Here are the daily unique visitor averages for this month:

    Rudy: 6.95
    Hillary: 22.24
    Obama: 5.71
    Ron: 34.43

    These are pretty good numbers, in relation to the lack of promotion that I have done.
     
    Will.Spencer, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  2. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #42
    Where's the fred thompson site? I -almost- registered one this week. He's hosting for paul harvey this week and doing some -great- commentaries.
     
    lorien1973, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  3. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #43
    Are there any real candidates we can vote for lol
     
    pingpong123, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  4. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #44
    i think he is going to replace chaney.
     
    pizzaman, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  5. Josh Inno

    Josh Inno Guest

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    #45
    Okay. This is one of the concepts I'm trying to fight.

    Let's take a look at that idea that your vote will have no effect.

    Let us suppose, for a moment, that in the up coming elections there are 3 main candidates for... not the president, but your local representative. Democrat, Republican, and Xnil. The Xnil party candidate has no hope of winning. This is because the majority of Americans do not believe that a 3rd party candidate can win any office, and thus never vote for them, and the majority of the people in your state vote the party line, either republican or democrat.

    Now, let us suppose, for a moment, that based on the issues, and the person, you dislike the republican and democratic candidates, but like the Xnil candidate (or at least dislike them the least).

    Now, let's suppose that you vote for the Xnil candidate, whom you like, rather than 'who you think will win', and that some people, who are similar to you, do so as well, and let's look at the result.

    First of all, when the poles come in, there will be one less vote for someone you dislike (whom you otherwise would have voted for). Secondly, you send a clear message to the political system that you prefer the politics of the Xnil candidate enough to abandon the 2 party paradim. Thus, in order to re-gain support from your segment of the population, the Republicans and Democrats will scoot just a bit closer towards the kind of politics you want them to practice (the kind of politics practiced by the Xnil candidate).

    Secondly, because there are more votes for the Xnil candidate, people begin to take 3rd party candidates more seriously. This will encourage more people to vote for 3rd party candidates if they feel those candidates have a chance.

    Third, because more people vote for 3rd party candidates (when they think they are the best choice on the issue), those votes will have MORE of an effect on the political direction taken by republicans and democrats, and those candidates will have even more of a chance to get elected.

    So while your vote may not help someone you dislike win, it will make it more likely that you will have a chance to actually elect people you like in the future. It is not an immediate effect, but it is an effect all the same.

    Now. What happens if you hate both the republican and democratic candidates, but love the Xnil candidate, but vote republican or democrat instead of Xnil, because you don't think Xnil will win? Well, both republican and democratic parties keep their lock on the American people, think people don't like the Xnil politics, and keep on keeping on.
     
    Josh Inno, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  6. Josh Inno

    Josh Inno Guest

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    #46
    I do look at third party candidates. And I only vote for them if I think that particular person is the best choice based on the issues, and their record.
     
    Josh Inno, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  7. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #47
    that's silly.
     
    lorien1973, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  8. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

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    #48
    the problem with this whole statement is easy to see....Put up Giuliani and Newt vs. Clinton...of the three, Clinton is the only one who lied under oath, neither Newt or Giuliani has...also, why does it matter that Guliani was married three times? Liz Taylor has been married about 10, does that really matter? No!
     
    d16man, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  9. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #49
    the mormon (romney) had the least wives of the whole group :p
     
    lorien1973, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  10. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #50
    i understand what you are saying voting for popular third party candidate could eventually start a third party but i don't think it is going to work in real life. i don't know if you remember ross perot or not he almost got to build a third party but they are no where to be found now.in order for a third party to really get to a point that it can make a diffrence we have to have a few election cycles with weak major party candidates and voter dissatisfaction.
    on the other hand you might dislike a candidate so much that you would cast your vote against him/her and in a close election these votes can actually change the result. so would it be ok to vote for the third party and by doing so help some one that you really don't want get elected?
    i guess that is up to ppl to decide for themselves
     
    pizzaman, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  11. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #51
    guliani cheated on his wife and had left the gracie mansion when she found out
    newt you know the story of the wife and cancer treatment
    i have picked the best candidate to support
    john edwards
     
    pizzaman, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  12. Josh Inno

    Josh Inno Guest

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    #52
    That was a big argument against voting for Perrot.

    And I don't want to start 'a third party' so much, as I want people to realize that there have been 3rd party candidates that have made it all the way to congress and the senate, and that voting 3rd party isn't automatically throwing away your vote (I hate that phrase), that the only way to throw your vote away is not to cast it at all. I don't think that we'll have a third party that is strong enough any time in the near future to be a serious challenge for president. I think that this needs to start at the local level, work it's way up to non-dem non-republican candidates being more common in the senate and in congress, and then it can eventually work it's way up to the president.

    And you were talking about potentially not voting at all. I'm saying that, rather than NOT voting because of disgust with the Democratic or Republican parties, you could instead choose to send a message to both parties by voting for a 3rd party candidate. But I only advise this if you actually like the politics of said 3rd party candidate. If not, you'll send a message... but it will be the wrong kind.

    As long as you Vote, informed, and you believe in your heart of hearts that you are voting for the best person for the job (even if you think that's because someone not of the 2 parties won't be able to get anything done), I will be behind you all the way.

    The three things I am solidly against are (in increasing order of Villainy) A. Not voting. B. Voting without informing yourself. C. Voting the party line against your concious.

    If you vote the party line because you believe each individual Candidate is the best candidate, I have no problem with your vote. If you vote the party line because 'it's easy' or 'I'm voting for the party because the candidates don't matter' -that's- when I have a problem with your vote and would rather you just stayed home. I also have a problem with 'voting for who I think will win' just so you can say you 'voted for the winner'.

    I can understand voting for the major opposition to someone you really hate. I admit I've done so myself. But I generally would advise saving that for extreme measures in close elections.

    (if you vote informed, for the
     
    Josh Inno, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  13. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #53
    Until the media learns of Edward's possible cheating. If cheating is the only qualification you look for. In which case, you might be interested in Mitt Romney ;)
     
    GTech, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  14. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #54
    even the democrats don't support silky pony
     
    lorien1973, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  15. India Forum

    India Forum Well-Known Member

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    #55
    Thanks, I would go with Hillary.

    Jay
     
    India Forum, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  16. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #56
    Bahahahahahahahaha! :)
     
    Will.Spencer, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  17. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #57
    i have to agree with you and and give you that voting a third party is better than not voting.
    i am an independent so i vote based on who i want to win always.
     
    pizzaman, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  18. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

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    #58
    which shows how much you really need help....or are you planning on moving up to his side of the "two americas"? I find it funny, because you know with shrillary and osamabama there is no way with "Flush the John" Edwards will ever become president...
     
    d16man, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  19. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #59
    the media for now is happy talking about clinton and obama hopefully as the time passes john edwards will get more attention
     
    pizzaman, Mar 21, 2007 IP
  20. d16man

    d16man Well-Known Member

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    #60

    doubt it...the media wants shrillary to win....why do you think they posted the stuff about osamabama's money situation....have you yet to hear the mainstream media say something bad about her? Nope, didn't think so...
     
    d16man, Mar 21, 2007 IP