were you talking about me when you said "Christian bashing" if so can you point out to what i said that made you say that
God didn't tell anyone to stfu... men wrote that, men thought that, and men at that time wanted that. As you can see time changes, so does moral values, and the bible was probably a combination of God's actual word mixed with the morals of the time, which God might of not even agreed with. Anyway, I believe in God, I'll accept some things from the Bible, but not everything since it's not 100% the word of God, since God didn't write it, man did. Obviously there are some people in this forum that don't believe in God, and will probably hold to their idea until they can "see" God. Although I don't agree with all their points, I see they can defend their idea, and those who do believe, defend theirs as well. At least both sides stay true to their beliefs. IMO rather than both sides starting threads that will obviously lead to flaming the other side, the threads should stick to the topic, and not cause any problems to a believer or non-believer.
You are too predictable. I knew you were going to try and point that at me. I was hoping it would help you but of course it didn't.
Well, that has to do with the general attitude of those who are trying to defend the original poster or are known for hating Christians. Your posts (I went back over them) are either taking on the original posters theme or somewhat neutral. But none where positive towards Christians or the Bible now where they? Sorry if I mistook you as a basher though. I'm sure I am not the only one who has blended a couple of posters together because of similarities in their posts.
Of course I am predictable. When ever we are talking about some one who doesn't think, the first person that comes to my mind is you.
right on cue....fixed that for you by the way... next up: Gtech will respond to gworld's ranting, and gworld will answer with:
Those verses are being used out of context. That is all... too long to explain why, to people who don't want to really know. [Edit] I guess it's not that hard to explain. Women in that time were just not well edjucated and men tended not to respect their opinions. It would make sense for the church leaders to advise them not to speak out and cause controversy.
You hit the nail on the head. That is why I view threads as "bashing" because it isn't started to learn, just to try to find fault.
And today, the bible pushers are the one who are not educated and intelligent people tend not to respect their opinions. Does this mean that we need a new book that advise the bible pushers to be quite?
I think it's a little harder to define any group of people as generally uneducated and unintelligent today, but I'm open to reading your book telling them to be quiet, as long as you reference these statistical sources of yours.
In the bible it says, in many places, that a Christian must also attempt to be an upright and forthright citizen, and bring no appearance of shame to the Church. If one Christian acts in a way that is unbecoming, people may associate that with the church as a whole. If a few people do, this becomes even more likely. A lot of times I have experienced people expecting certain positive and certain negative behaviors from me because I am a Christian. People steriotype, it's in their nature. These people have often been surprised when I didn't fit their stereotypes, such as when I don't suddenly start thumping a bible and yelling about damnation and salvation when I hear one of my online friends from the south is a Pagan of some sort. This is also somewhat like my teacher who experienced the stereotype in another country that all Americans had white, or very dark skin, so people didn't believe she was American, because she looked just like everyone else over there. As soon as she said she was a Native American, everyone accepted it, but weren't interested in hearing about what tribe she was from as soon as she fell into one of their comfortable steriotypes. At that period in time, Christianity was still a sect of Judism and, in my understanding, the law at that time stated that women should not speak in temple, and it was viewed as negative and unseemly for one to do so. The church was already viewed in a negative light, and as a cult at that time, and so the leaders of the church were very much concerned that if any more negative light was shed on the church, the persecution would increase. There are many points where Jesus shows a concern for treating women well, and where he fought the preconceptions involving women. He involved women in his ministry, spoke with them directly, and delt with and protected women that were seen in a shameful light. In today's day and age, negative steriotypes of the church exist, and church leaders are trying to balance the need for secular appeal, with the need to stay true to Jesus's teachings. So the same concerns, and messages from the church leaders of that time actually encourage female leadership and participation in discussion, they do not forbid it.
There are more examples of women leaders in Paul's writings when he talks about certain bodies in different locations. It was the women he was talking about by name that he was praising for their faith and works. You are also correct about who Jesus spoke to, much of the time it was the women. Or the woman at the well who wasn't a Jew and during that time the Jews wouldn't even talk to much less a woman. Jesus did a lot of things that broke "traditions" of the synagogues at the time.
It's amazing how much mud slinging goes on in these threads Where's Dead Corn? He's usually in the thick of this stuff! Me? I am getting out of this one before someone throws some mud my way. Col
It is OK, I am sure there is always some where, some how a need for bigot ex-corporal with vast experience in giving out pamphlets in high schools in the world.
Well I left and came back and as I expected a lot of running around and attacking people personally but not a single post that proves that passage meant anything other than what I said it meant. Sure I put my own little "crass" spin on it to be funny but surely looking beyond that you're intelligent enough to know what I meant and get the point of the thread are you not? I saw some great excuses for it, but no one saying that God wasn't telling women to be silent in church. Kinda like you'd shhh your dog. Interesting. Sorry guys but it is what it is. A quote from a book that you base your entire spiritual belief system on. Tough break.
umm... you didn't read Josh Inno's post, or debunked's, or even mine? Thought they explained it fairly well considering this was just a bashing thread to begin with. If you didn't want to know what the reason was, and were just making a point, why'd you ask for the reason of it?
You mean this? All the people you mentioned including yourself all followed the same excuse so it's easy to lump you all together and address you as one. You see instead of denying that the Bible was basically telling women they don't have the right to speak in and should be submissive you just tried to excuse it by saying "in that time". But wait... I thought God was timeless. Remember this is supposed to be the "word of God" we're talking about here, am I wrong? So there should be no "in that time". Unless you're saying God's word doesn't apply the same today as it did then? If you are that's amazingly convenient isn't it? I mean come on guys are you really going to try and spin the word of God? Especially when it's written so plainly and concisely as this? It plainly states "A women should learn in quietness and in full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." Put it in all the context you want and you tell me what that statement means.. You just can't spin that to mean anything other than male domination over a woman. But this is the word of God who loves all of his children equally... Or does that sound like something a human would say? Then there's debunked's defense. We got it from some website. As if that has anything to do with the fact that it's written in the bible.... Laughable I tell you.