How Did the Trinity Doctrine Develop?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by dougadam, Jan 22, 2007.

  1. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #81
    Scientology has a lot in common with JW's - they both have all these classes and teachings that aren't Biblical but many fall for it because it sounds so good, but don't question it or else you are out!

    If authority is scared of questioning then they should be questioned!

    man made religions suck.... and still do....

    Jesus made a comment about true religion - Not many follow what He said a true religion is. But the basis for what He said one is has to do with Loving God AND loving others.
     
    debunked, Mar 9, 2007 IP
  2. kae

    kae Peon

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    #82
    There is no thin blue line with who i spiritually associate with and love very much. I am only careful to represent what i understand to be the truth. I would not presume to announce who fills the heavenly positions. I am not a Jehovah Witness but i do not feel threatened by those words that seo says. There are of course aspects to their doctrine that i do not follow because they have not jumped out of the scriptures at me and until they do i have to be true to God in being true to myself. If i had let these things become a barrier between myself and my brothers and sisters then i would have missed out on the wonderful aspects that i have found to be the truth.
     
    kae, Mar 9, 2007 IP
  3. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

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    #83
    If you doubt any religion you are out. Scientology, Christianity, Islam.

    They're all man made and all the same in that right.

    Question the religion or "God's will" (a.k.a the will of the religious leader who made it up) and you're no longer a member. I mean come on how else could any religion have power of you peons if they didn't have a means like that to control you?
     
    GeorgeB., Mar 9, 2007 IP
  4. kae

    kae Peon

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    #84
    From an outsider looking in. The witnesses are most well known for using their bible as the basis of there teaching ...everything they teach through their study aids is referenced back to the scriptures ...EVERYTHING. You are not out if you question them ....they all have come from that place of questioning too and only through questioning can you get answers. I think it is wonderful that there are people out there that can help you answer lifes questions. Too many times have i heard people turning away from their church ministers because their questions are not answered. Ultimately it is up to you if you want to believe.
     
    kae, Mar 9, 2007 IP
  5. KalvinB

    KalvinB Peon

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    #85
    Depending on the questions that might be a good thing. It's a minister's job to give an answer to anyone who asks. A church should be able to answer every question about church doctrine. Nothing should be hidden from anyone, even nonmembers.

    If there are secret (also refered to as "sacred") doctrines that leaders refuse to discuss with non-members then it's time to leave.

    Questions about why things happen and God sometimes don't have clear cut answers and any answer given should be taken as opinion unless it can be backed up with the Bible.
     
    KalvinB, Mar 9, 2007 IP
  6. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #86
    sort of true, JW's pull much out of context or using their "translation" that rewrites to fit the leaders theories. They are good at sounding convincing until you go back over the verse in context or even using the greek to verify, then you figure out how misleading they have been to you. Be careful, if you think they go back to the Bible, they go back to how they are taught to show you specific scriptures. Each scripture needs to be tested in context of the passage and the Bible as a whole.
     
    debunked, Mar 9, 2007 IP
  7. Cheap SEO Services

    Cheap SEO Services <------DoFollow Backlinks

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    #87
    What a lot of baloney! That sounds like someone else talking and not you at all. In other words, you are ripping someone elses ideas and making them your own. None of the near 7 million Witnesses are taught to show specific scriptures. We use ALL scriptures unlike many doctrines who follow a few that suits their own lifestyle.

    Again! "Don't believe the hype!" Go and talk to some witnesses and find out for yourself and stop listening to baloney.


    There is no "authority" in our organization as others may view it. Yes, there are some who have responsibilities to "give the proper food at the right time" as appointed by Jesus himself. At no time do these trusted people lourd it over any other. Everything (as kae said) goes back to the Bible.

    If you honestly believe our translation is twisted. Try getting the Emphatic Diaglott and measuring it against the other translations. It has been proven time and time again that the NWT is the most accurate translation.

    Again! "Don't believe the hype!". Go check it for yourself.

    Col :)
     
    Cheap SEO Services, Mar 9, 2007 IP
  8. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #88
    We do not have to go beyond YOUR own words SEO to recognize the apostacy of the cult. Let just look at the three most glaring examples:

    1. The doctrine of the Trinity is inspired by Satan
    2. Heaven is limited only to 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
    3. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians

    Boy, SEO, and you do not believe you are indoctrinated?

    Kae... you speak of love. Paul spoke of love quite often. Can you show me where Paul believed not pointing out the utter error of such apostacy was, in his eyes, love? I can see where Paul said to "avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." But, Kae, you do not avoid them, you seem to condone them. For instance, you write:

    Please show me where in the Bible it says that if you are not a Jehovah's Witness you cannot go to heaven? Please show in the Bible where it says that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians. The truth is, Kae, you encourage such apostacy, even suggesting one should be silent in the face of it.

    But you are not silent, Kae. You simply choose to be silent in SEO's apostacy. Paul would have otherwise:

    2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

    Why?

    2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; v4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    SEO believes:
    1. The doctrine of the Trinity is inspired by Satan
    2. Heaven is limited only to 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
    3. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians

    How by only deeming, tenderly albeit, to council those who know this to be apostacy (and have no problem stating so) to simply love one another, how are you following the Word of God by also not counciling SEO as to his apostacy? IS this truly love to allow one to wallow in such dark error?

    Do you believe, Kae, that only Jehovah's Witnesses are true Christians?

    If not then you do SEO no service by your silence on this matter. IF so then you are a Jehovah's Witness. Yet you say you are not. If this is so, and I must take you on your word, then, Kae:

    2Ti 1:13 ¶ Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. v14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
     
    Dead Corn, Mar 9, 2007 IP
  9. kae

    kae Peon

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    #89
    I would not encourage judgment inside or outside of a religion anymore than i would encourage the trinity. We are all living in a wicked system where finding our way back to God is a difficult thing at the best of times and i am not here to take sides, argue about who is right or wrong or who is saved or not. I am here to learn more and preach the good news if possible :)
    These scriptures reflect some of my core beliefs

    Do not Judge....

    Luke 6:37
    [ Judging Others ] "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

    Heavenly calling ....

    Matthew 19:28
    Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Do not stumble your brother...

    1 Corinthians 10:32
    Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God—

    Love one another ...

    1 Peter 3:8
    [ Suffering for Doing Good ] Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.

    Support and encourage each other.....

    24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

    If we fall short of these things shouldn't we be picking each other up rather than tearing each other down.
     
    kae, Mar 10, 2007 IP
  10. Cheap SEO Services

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    #90
    You are bringing up old content and not dealing with the current content. This is not how you address to rebuttle in a debate. You have simply sidestepped what I have said. What I said was in no way attacking in nature. In fact, for the umpteenth time I feel I have to defend when there is no need to.

    You can continue to judge me and condemn me all the way until the cows come home. That does not change one thing the Bible says (which is what I have always quoted from).

    To know what or who a Jehovah's Witness is you would be wise to do some research before claiming who is or who is not. The name speaks for itself. Does it not say in verses "you are my witnesses" and is not God's name Jehovah (Englicised)? Therefore, we are witnesses of God and that is exactly how we identify ourselves out in public. Just as the apostles did and all his disciples. There's nothing different happening at this point in time as it did back in Paul's time as far as the preaching work is concerned. What is it we are preaching? To invite people to look into their own Bibles to find out what it really teaches. It does teach that Jesus is God's son and whilst on earth as a perfect human, Jesus did nothing but his father's will and he taught his apostles and disciples to do exactly that.

    How on earth YOU judge this preaching work as apostacy is beyond belief.

    I am no longer conversing with you on this matter for the fact it serves no purpose. You want to travel down your road and attack anyone that does not belong on YOUR road. I will travel on my road and invite people to find out for themselves what is at the end of that road. It's a huge difference isn't it? But, you can't see that. I pray for you mate. I really do.

    One day you just might make sense of it all and start thinking about your approach to this.

    Good day.

    Col :)
     
    Cheap SEO Services, Mar 10, 2007 IP
  11. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #91
    I don't see dead corn jundging you at all. He is correcting and rebuking which is right to do when someone is off track and teaching false doctrine.

    BTW, is Jesus the SON of God or not? You just said He is again, that means he isn't/wasn't and angel, but the one and only true SON of God (not adopted like those who accept Him)
     
    debunked, Mar 10, 2007 IP
  12. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #92
    See, kae, you begin by stating you would not encourage judgement when, in fact, I am not judging SEO. But the funny thing is you quickly go on to denounce the Trinity because you believe this is unsound doctrine. How come you can target one thing you do not agree with but when it comes to SEO and his apostacy you remain silent?

    But you are. You write that those who believe in the Trinity are in error. But you are completely silent when SEO says anyone who is not a Jehovah's Witness is not a true Christian. Oh, kae, your silence speaks volumes.

    See when you write:
    One wonders how it is that I am judging when all I am saying is that I do not believe when someone is not a Jehovah's Witness he will automatically be denied entry into heaven as a theological error, this, mind you, is a theological observation.

    But when your boy SEO says I will not be allowed into heaven because I am not a JW, something any sane Christian theology would deny, is he not judging? Is he not stating, since I am not a Jehovah's Witness therefore... Who is he, or any Jehovah's Witness to "therefore" me or anyone else. It is he who judges, he and his cult. It is you who conveniently remains silent on his judgement of others. Why?

    You write:

    But you really have no problem with that. These are just candy words. See, you find it very easy to tell other Christians here that the very essence of our faith, that Jesus was God in the flesh, of the Trinity, that He came down to earth to offer Himself a sacrifice for us all so that sins may be forgiven - as God - as the Word... this you have no problem off-handedly denying.

    Oh, but, kae, for you to suggest to SEO that not only Jehovah's Witnesses can go to heaven... oh, my no, that oh, that would be saying so without love.

    Utter nonsense, kae. You speak a good game, but when one analyzes your words they come up empty.

    Sorry.
     
    Dead Corn, Mar 10, 2007 IP
  13. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #93
    SEO, you write:

    This "content" was posted on February 28th. Barely two weeks ago. If you wish not to be held accountable for something you stated only two weeks ago, lol, no wonder you don't mind following the cultic religion of a snake oil salesman who lived over a hundred.
     
    Dead Corn, Mar 10, 2007 IP
  14. kae

    kae Peon

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    #94
    Dead corn let me ask you this ...what do you understand this to be saying
    John 5:39-43
    39You diligently study[a] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

    41"I do not accept praise from men, 42but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

    Jesus says here he does not accept praise from men so how can you praise him as God ?
     
    kae, Mar 10, 2007 IP
  15. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #95
    Put into the context of the Bible as a whole, I would have to say Jesus does not take the praise of men over God, he aludes to that in the latter verses you didn't paste here. God is not a respecter of man (doesn't sway because of mans feelings, etc..) Same goes with praises (general context of praise - like telling your friend he did a great job at something) Jesus will do what God will praise Him for, not man.
     
    debunked, Mar 10, 2007 IP
  16. kae

    kae Peon

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    #96
    It would be great if anyone could address my previous question and now being my last question i have about the Trinity.

    1 Timothy 6:15,16
    15which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.


    Being immortal means you cannot die so how could any equal part of God die? Remembering God cannot lie either.
     
    kae, Mar 10, 2007 IP
  17. Dead Corn

    Dead Corn Peon

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    #97
    .

    Jesus only died in the flesh like you yourself believe you one day will. Yet you believe in the afterlife. How is it that you believe you may not die but that Jesus must with the same finality you, nevertheless, exceed yourself? Aren't you crossing apples with oranges. Tell me how your death and afterlife denies Jesus the same.
     
    Dead Corn, Mar 10, 2007 IP