Romantic Guy, thanks for all of that info. I'm a blogger for PPP (and I hope that if I took your opp, I did it justice) and it's great to hear how it works from the other side of the fence. FWIW, you can be very specific now with segmentation, but that will cost you. For PR4 posts you'll pay $12.50 each, for PR5, it goes up to $35. Thanks again, Colleen
Since I bought my blog postings, PayPerPost has made some changes. They have upped their fee from 25% of the offer price to 35%. In addition, if you require that your posting show up on blogs with PageRank, it is going to cost you. Here is the breakdown: PR0 $5.00 + $1.75 = $6.75 minimum PR1 $5.50 + $1.93 = $7.43 minimum PR2 $6.00 + $2.10 = $8.10 minimum PR3 $10.00 + $3.50 = $13.50 minimum PR4 $12.50 + $4.38 = $16.88 minimum PR5 $35.00 + $12.25 = $47.25 minimum I paid $147.50 for 20 posts. If I bought the same posts today, requesting the PR I received, the cost would be $329.68!!! Requesting blog postings by Alexa ranking looks to me like it would be more cost effective. 1,000,000 Alexa $5.25 + 35% 500,000 Alexa $6.50 + 35% 300,000 Alexa $7.00 + 35% 100,000 Alexa $10.00 + 35% 70,000 Alexa $25.00 + 35% 50,000 Alexa $60.00 + 35% I think the best way to get value is to require a certain level of advertiser satisfaction. The scale is 1 to 5 and there does not appear to be any additional cost. Before they implemented these changes there were more bloggers than opportunities. Supply and demand would indicate that prices should go down. From some postings that I read, I appears to me that they were even more aggressive with their pricing and have had to back off some. I looked at the posted opportunities this morning and it looks to me like they are down about 50% from what I noticed in the past. Frankly, I was having a hard time justifying what I paid for my 20 posts before these changes. For my money, I think blog postings her at DP are a much better value. I have asked PayPerPost to send me my remaining balance.
Yes this is a nice thread. Thanks. And i agree that %35 is too much for this service. Since they add extra costs for pagerank, it became much more expensive.
And that right there killed it for me... I read your initial posts in this thread and actually went and signed up. I thought I'd better finish the thread before I did and now that I've seen this I'm afraid that account will never be used... You're right they shot themselves in the foot. It's much more cost effective to simply pay DP blog posters. Looks like someone got a case of ego inflation. I was prepared to spend low $x,xxx today so I thank you for this thread RomanticGuy, though I would have realized this myself once I started preparing to pay.
Given that pricing is the current topic, I'm curious how much alternatives are for scale (e.g. not onesy-twosy), including your time/effort/expense to coordinate. All input appreciated here or by PM...
danrua, I guess it depends on what you are looking for. If you want 100 unique blog postings about your website and you don't care about the blog's PageRank, I think PayPerPost still is a pretty decent option. Just because you don't require PageRank (and don't pay for it), doesn't mean you won't get postings from blogs with a decent PageRank. If you are looking for a few PR5 blog postings, you can find them much cheaper than $47 here on the DP forum. For me personally, this seems like a more cost effective option. Have you continued to use PayPerPost since the recent changes? What has been your experience?
I see the addition of segmentation similar to you. Run-of-network via PPP remains roughly as valuable as before -- although new filtering by topic/quality/tack-score adds a worthwhile dimension. A few high PR/traffic posts are still better achieved thru non-PPP channels, but 10+ posts and broader buzz are easier achieved in total cost (direct and indirect cost/effort/time) via marketplace models like PPP. That said, I'm conflicted in every way imaginable (PPP blogger, advertiser, investor) so I try to force myself to see different perspectives. I find it funny that pre-segmentation concerns revolved around PPP's lack of targeting, but when targeting costs something then concerns flow the other direction. It reminds me of my high-school teacher's saying: "there's no free lunch". I do know there are plenty of Posties, including myself, who are worried about marketers focusing on segmentation and forgetting about run-of-network. I have no data to support this, but that sentiment could drive Posties to try even harder for those advertisers trusting run-of-network. At the end of the day there is value to a diversified marketing spend across onesy-twosy non-PPP, some targeted PPP and many run-of-network PPP -- maybe with a mix of 30% targeted opps and 70% run-of-network. Note, I might also devote some budget towards PPP's new BubbleAd technology that integrates user-generated and sponsor-provided content (maybe 10% until I measured results). That's the approach I would try with my dollars, but have no data yet. I've been in data gathering mode (with the exception of a recent charity post and some fun on the boards) since PPP's segmentation release.
I don't really think Alexa ranking is as effective of a measure of a site's traffic and popularity, since it only counts visitors using the Alexa toolbar. I'd much rather pay for pagerank.
Well, PayPerPost has once again jacked up their prices. The minimum offer is still $5, but if you require an average quality blogger that increases the minimum to $10. The minimum for an above average blogger is now $15. If you want a PR1-PR2 blog, tack on another $5, PR3-PR4 is an additional $10 and a PR5-PR6 add $30. So the minimum price for a blogger with an average rating, including PayPerPosts 35% fee, would be: PR0 $13.50 PR1-PR2 $20.25 PR3-PR4 $27.00 PR5-PR6 $54.00 I paid $147.50 for 20 blog postings. If I requested blogs with the same PR with an average rating the cost would now be a whopping $553.50. That is a 275% increase in two months. WOW!! I have got to imagine that prices like that are going to drive away a lot of advertisers. You can count me as one.
Actually, pricing in marketplaces like PPP is all about supply and demand from sponsors/bloggers and has very little to do with PPP's segmentation. Before segmentation you could purchase run-of-network with no segmentation for $5, and you still can today. Run-of-network provides an offer to every PPP blogger at every PR, quality, Alexa, Technorati -- matching what you did before. If you say "great, but now the bloggers won't take my $5 opp while higher paying segmented opps exist", then it demonstrates that supply-and-demand is the rule at work, right?
Supply and demand will absolutely rule the day. I originally ordered 10 blog postings at $6.00 each. I would have been happy to have that order filled over the period of 7 days. Those first 10 blog postings were done within a few hours. That tells me there is excess supply (bloggers). Supply and demand would dictate that since there is excess supply, I can drop my price or raise my standards and still receive the number of blog postings I am looking for. Before segmentation, that is the way PPP worked. You could require a certain level of pagerank at no additional cost. After segmentation, PPP dictated that blog requests with pagerank or other requirements have a higher minimum bid amount. That was unnecessary. The market will dicate what a blog posting is worth. If I want 10 postings on PR5 blogs for $5.00, I am unlikely to receive all the postings I desire. I would likely have to raise my bid to $10 or $15 to receive the desired 10 postings. No action from PPP required. I tried PPP again after segmentation. Rather than raise my price, I raised my standards by requiring a minimum pagerank value. Most of my blog postings were taken in less than an hour. That tells me there is still excess supply (bloggers). With segmentation, PayPerPost is attempting to raise prices to artificially high levels. There is already excess supply and raising prices will only further reduce demand. By my observation, that is already happening. The number of available opportunities is dropping because many advertisers aren't will to pay those prices. Look at the available opportunities from Friday, only one. Look at the available opportunities for a week ago Friday, four. I only see two opportunities currently available since the new incarnation of segmentation went into effect. Why? Reduced demand and excess supply. My recollection is, before the first incarnation of segmentation, there were about 160 available opportunities. Friday night there were 108 available opportunities, now there are 95 available opportunities. As the older opportunities get grabbed up, I suspect the number of available opportunities will be south of 50 in fairly short order. Attempting to raise prices in the face of excess supply is not in the best interests of the advertisers, the bloggers or PPP. While I will be watching the situation with interest, at these prices, I am afraid PPP can't count on future business from me. I have considered looking for PPP bloggers and directly offering them posts for cash. Since PPP requires disclosure, they should not be too hard to find...
Don't be fooled by PPP's active opp count. That count fluctuates largely on two real-time variables: 1) rate of sponsor growth/opps 2) rate of blogger growth/uptake Since launching segmentation and affiliate programs, both of those numbers have increased -- with the viral success of ReviewMyPost pushing blogger growth even faster than sponsor. That is great news for sponsors, suggesting that each level of segmentation (including run-of-network) is growing more bang for the buck. As for onesy-twosy sponsored blogger recruitment, I've always felt that was best achieved manually -- thus, PPP competitor focus on that segment has never made business sense. However, if you want recurring, scalable ROI, segmented across 20, 50 or 100 blogs then PPP is the way to go -- PPP's 25.9% cut ($1.75/$6.75) is a fraction of the all-in time/effort/cost of doing it manually or via competitors.
That didn't take long. I received this in an e-mail from PayPerPost: "Many of our advertisers contacted us requesting some pricing adjustments on the lower end of the spectrum and I am happy to say we listened. We believe the new lower price minimums are now more fair and reflective of the market for both advertisers and bloggers." For those keeping track, the current number of available opportunities is 76. There appears to only be one available opportunity posted after the lastest incarnation of segmentation. If you have a PR7 blog and a tack rating of 4 there is a $135 Forex posting waiting for you. I happened to have an opportunity that was opened prior to the lastest changes. I had some available funds in my account, so I increased the number of blogs requested. All the available blog postings were taken in less than an hour. Supply and demand. It seems to me that the latest changes dropped demand (why else relent on the price after two business days?). One of my blogs was a PR5! Apparently my $6.00 opportunity looked pretty good to them (slim pickings). The price changes appear to be dropping the premium for 3 tack (average) blogger to $3.50 and the premium for a PR1-PR2 blog to $3.50. As far as, I can see the other prices have stayed the same. I still have been trying to figure out how to make PayPerPost work for me. One consideration is that since the number of new opportunities is so limited, I think you should be able to get blogs with decent PR for the minimum $5.00.
And you thought these pricing discussions were just between us. PPP has ears everywhere Opp creation and uptake are still going strong, but direct advertiser feedback helped a ton. Much like eBay in the early days, PPP's marketplace is in constant flux with blogger and sponsor expectations and growth rates. PPP can't please everyone, but they're showing a good track record of listening to all marketplace participants and improving...
For the record, as of this morning, the number of available opportunities was 64. It looked to me that my prediction was well on its way to being realized, but PayPerPost has recently made a change that I think will turn things around in a big way. I think I am an impartial observer to the happenings at PayPerPost. When I thought they were good place to advertise, I said so. When I thought they have made some bad moves that reduced the value of their service to advertisers, I said so. Lately, I have been a big critic of PayPerPost due to their implementation of minimum pricing. It had been my feeling that they had vastly overpriced access to their pool of bloggers. Instead of promoting a free and open market, PPP's high minimum, in my opinion, amounted to blantant price fixing. If you read my recent posts, I have not been a big fan of spending your advertising dollars at PayPerPost. I say all this, because I believe my latest comments should be put in that context. As of today, PayPerPost has changed their minimum prices to recommend prices at least through the end of May. I think this is a GREAT move for advertisers, posties and PayPerPost. It will bring in more advertisers for the posties to promote. More income for the posties. It will allow advertisers to get the best price possible for their advertising dollar. More posts for the advertiser. It will attract more advertisers. More revenue and business for PayPerPost. It sounds great, so who loses? In the short term, bloggers who don't have PageRank or traffic to offer advertisers. I say in the short term because this should encourage bloggers to increase the value of their blogs. After doing so, they will have something of value to offer the advertisers and they will be rewarded with blogging opportunities and link sale opportunities. So what is my latest view on PayPerPost? I think it is potentially a GREAT place to promote a website. With that said, I think you should thoughtfully consider your goals (links, traffic, buzz), clearly state your requirements and fairly price your opportunity. Make an effort to make your opportunity as attractive as possible to the bloggers you are targetting and you will be more likely to get the posts you want at a price you can afford. As for me, I made the first deposit to my PayPerPost advertising account since my initial test in January. I have also submitted a new "starter" opportunity to test the waters in the new pricing environment. My expectation is that the latest changes at PayPerPost will result in an expansion of my advertising budget with a large portion going to PayPerPost.