I agree. Not quite understanding the English here. Some will, yes. The older you get, the more you realize that we won't all get along. Reasons important, but somehow being reasonable doesn't always fit into that equation. *shrug*
My opinion....hmmm. That's a fairly long topic. But I think Jaynes theory on this is closest to my perception of what happened. It's a good read. Read:Origin of Conciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. http://deoxy.org/alephnull/jaynes.htm
Notice I but slight emphasis on 'my beliefs'. While your belief in reason is sound, it's not absolute. eah, aother asumption. If it is not sound, you are free to demonstrate the shortcomings. My understanding of reality is based on cause and effect. I never fear questions, I never make phony assumptions. I never have to doubt my motives, or my conclusions. They are not based on magic, or wishfullness. There is no magic guy, tell me why 10,000 die every day.Tell me the benevolence of such twisted thought? Who am I, or you, to be so lucky that our mom does not have to walk 50 miles, and get raped, and stabbed and punched, to bring back a bag of rice? You are so priveledged, no? What reason do you suppose you are so lucky?
Circumstance, really. In some sense I feel guilty for not relay information I believe useful (not to you, but in general), and that I wish I could do more for people out there. These are just my emotion, and my desires. I don't wish to push this feeling on anyone, actually. If I could be 'the magic man' ie spring fish out of baskets, I would do it for the world. Even for those that hate me.
Origin of Conciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind: Done that. Feel compassion, I dare you. Reading books does not untitle a person to understanding. It is experience, and having a suffering person in your arms. For no good reason, that person hurts, and... they will die right now.... Look at our indifference, I hate it, but it is real. We are so lucky, so lucky/ We have nothing to claim but a birthright. Can you imagine if we were a 10 year old kid that has only a tent in Pakistan??? You are lucky, I am lucky, beyond all apprehension. All we have is a gift, we exist..... we exist only by chance, and why? Why are we so lucky? We have computers, nice beds, sufferring is only a concept. God fucked up, or there is no such being, for why?
I feel a comraderie Even for those that hate me. That is a person that knows. To wish greatness for the one we dislike, and to make it so, this will save us, I hope?
Yeah, Rick_michael, you think. You make me think. You are a loving person, this is invaluable. Man, thanks.
No insult, but that was probably the best post I read from you. It shows a side that appeals, and I believe is true (of you). Not that I don't think you believe the other stuff. But ^^^that is what I generally like. --- I was talking about two before this last one...you post too fast...lol.
Not to be an ass...but your aren't drinking now, are ya? You sound like a drinking buddy or something. Thanks for the compliment. I know you mean well, chief. Your anger...I've felt it...I FELT IT. Even more so. As a child I wanted to commit suicide, because I thought my god had abandoned me. As I grew older that feeling faded away, and I just accepted the world for what it was. We all feel those core feelings. We feel like we want to kill at times...we feel like we want to cry...and we feel like we want to help. That's what makes us humans, and I like it. You have a unique mind-set. Your mind is as interested as the emotions you seem to feel. I'm afraid my mental enertia (sp?) isn't up to that sort of task. I like feeling intensly in music, women, and flight...but I can't continuely grasp at the world that way. That's too complicated, and I often leave it to side. And at a point books bore me. I want to experience just as much as I want to know. Fuckin flying in heli beats the living shit out of reading a book. But my curiousity in info high as well. Anyways...I sort of like your style.
Thanks for the compliment. I know you mean well, chief. Your anger...I've felt it...I FELT IT. Even more so. As a child I wanted to commit suicide, because I thought my god had abandoned me. As I grew older that feeling faded away, and I just accepted the world for what it was. >> That must be a lonely feeling<< We all feel those core feelings. We feel like we want to kill at times...we feel like we want to cry...and we feel like we want to help. That's what makes us humans, and I like it. You have a unique mind-set. Your mind is as interested as the emotions you seem to feel. Yes, you do understand!! I'm afraid my mental enertia (sp?) isn't up to that sort of task. I like feeling intensly in music, women, and flight...but I can't continuely grasp at the world that way. That's too complicated, and I often leave it to side. And at a point books bore me. I want to experience just as much as I want to know. Fuckin flying in heli beats the living shit out of reading a book. But my curiousity in info high as well. Anyways...I sort of like your style. >>You have intense feelings, experiences, that are hard to relate. What do you do? Reading is good, but experiencing is a bonus. Mostly, I hide because most people are not like me. You have a great style, anyways, very bright. What music do you like? I am a blues guy, lead guitar stuff - my brother is drums, need a singer. Yeah, it is lonely, trying to meet smart people. I am sure there are a lot of us.
Well I thought integrity could need it since I thought he could learn somethings about the philosophy around atheism. I'm also agnostic, just like you. However, if we compare the evidence for evolution and the evidence for creationism, I see no reason for believing in creationism. And that was what I discussed with integrity. Sure, you can always say that there's no evidence for anything. Great! Let's just go back to stone age and live without evidence that makes most of our technology to work. You see, we need somewhat of direction toward the truth and the best we have is evidence.
1st. There is no evidence for evolution. You strictly just believe that it happened. You are trusting that it happened, or in better terms you are putting your faith in it. You have nothing to back up your fake "faith" in evolution. Us Christians have much MUCH reason to believe in Creationinsm. We have the solid proof of the Bible. Genesis 1 The Creation 1(A)In the beginning (B)God (C)created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was [a](D)formless and void, and (E)darkness was over the surface of the deep, and (F)the Spirit of God (G)was moving over the surface of the waters. 3Then (H)God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4God saw that the light was (I)good; and God (J)separated the light from the darkness. 5(K)God called the light day, and the darkness He called night And (L)there was evening and there was morning, one day. 6Then God said, "Let there be an (M)expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." 7God made the [c]expanse, and separated (N)the waters which were below the expanse from the waters (O)which were above the expanse; and it was so. 8God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. 9Then God said, "(P)Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let (Q)the dry land appear"; and it was so. 10God called the dry land earth, and the (R)gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. 11Then God said, "Let the earth sprout (S)vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so. 12The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13There was evening and there was morning, a third day. 14Then God said, "Let there be (T)lights in the (U)expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for (V)signs and for (W)seasons and for days and years; 15and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. 16God made the two great lights, the (X)greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made (Y)the stars also. 17(Z)God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18and to (AA)govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. 20Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens." 21God created (AB)the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24(AC)Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so. 25God made the (AD)beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 26Then God said, "Let (AE)Us make (AF)man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them (AG)rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27God created man (AH)in His own image, in the image of God He created him; (AI)male and female He created them. 28God blessed them; and God said to them, "(AJ)Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth." 29Then God said, "Behold, (AK)I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30and (AL)to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so. 31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very (AM)good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. NASB
integrity, I don't know how you think, if you think that the evidence can be found in Bible. How are you going to convince an Agnostic with it? When it comes to evolution, it's solid proof for it. I bringed it up before and both you and Josh accepted the theory. You just didn't accept evolution out of nothing. I also do believe that you don't believe that we humans and the chimpanzees have a common ancestor, which we do have. We are Homo sapiens which is an improvement from Homo Erectus. Also, if you find it weird that Humans and Chimpanzees have the same ancestor, how can you accept that wolfs is the ancestor of dogs such as terriers? _______ But yeah, I guess your right.. evolution scientists are just a bunch of jerks that don't know how to date objects. Can you provide a better method then(other than the bible)?
LOL! . The oldest tree right now is about 4,000-4,500 years old, The age of when the flood happened. BTW, the flood is not just a thing from the bible. It is in every major religion. Most Chinese and middle east religions contain a flood in history. Even the Muslims have one! That is because the real flood really happened. . BTW, I gave you rep because at least you think things out instead of going with the flow.
I hope you got the irony, I didn't actually mean that they are jerks The tree example you provided proves that the earth is at least 4500. We know that because a new ring appear every year. That doesn't mean that the age of earth is limited to that spectrum. Actually, when you find a peace of a dead tree, you can compare the rings it have with a living tree(each ring is formed by a result of the climate). You can therefore put pieces of wood together in a tree data diagram and that way prove that the earth is older than 10.000 years. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/slides/slideset/18/18_355_slide.html The flood example you gaved didn't happen at the date as the bible describes it. I think it was due to Ice melting as the we was turning out of an ice age(which we still havn't turned fully out of). Noah's Ark appears to be impossible however.
As I said before. The earth is right in between 6-10k years old. So the trees would make it right at the age. It is funny that we have no older trees. The climate can also speed up rings. Not just slow them down. Noah's Ark is not impossible. I think it is very possible. There is a guy named somewhere at the end of Proverbs. Cannot remember his name at the moment. He wrote a book not in the Bible. It speaks of an ice age like event being caused by the flood. iI read a commentary on it. How the likeliness of an ice age coming from the flood is great because of factors of the time.
The climate changes every year affect how the rings will look like, but not how many rings there will be. No, Noahs Ark is impossible because there's not space enough for every earths species to share. Also, the flood came from the melting ice, not the other way around. The flood is very well explained here.
1. Then why did you challenge that our oldest tree is about that old if you agree? 2. We have many sub species. If you take ALL the major leadings of species. You end up with just enough room. The variations and breeds of animals we have today came from the animals living in different climates in different places and adapting in changes in their body through looks and genetics because of different foods (more along the lines of plants than meat I believe) they would eat. 3. Climate was turned cold in areas of globe and caused giant glaciers. Like the one that probably made a hole called the grand canyon.
There is no evidence for evolution. None whatsoever. You go, girl. BTW, why would fossils be backed up by DNA, which was unkown before 1953? It is one of the most profound indicators that can be imagined. It was a secondary discovery, that in no way could have been predicted. Yet, out of the blue, genetics not only substantiates evolution, it shows it in real time. The bible, the Koran, they don't say this, the most basic trait of life. Yeah, it is terribly absent. What more do you need?
The bible fails to predict DNA. What the fuck? It fails to predict plate tectonics???? It fails on all accounts, it is obviously a mythological collection. You know what? My understandings always make sense, for that I rely upon. We live in a cause and effect universe. I never fear dispute of my beliefs. You have no idea how profound that is, none at all. I mean it. You do not know what is without remorse, without having to make excuses. I am sure of what I know, and it is reasonably supported. See ya, my faithful friend, for I need no excuses.