Our country has been on this trend for along time. I wish I was alive in the 60's to slap LBJ in the face, and tell the 'new left' to fuck-off. But I wasn't, and I got to deal with a situation that even the most powerful of interests groups would find hard to contend with. I'm not going to say this is the only problem of government, but it seems like everything that's done has been almost set in place...and the structure in which society forments it's rational views must change. It can't be a handful of networks or undebateable interests groups. How is society to decipher through the rhetoric and truely support a good direction within this current paradigm? I do take all of this dead serious, deadcorn. I wish I didn't even have to think about it. Frankly I wonder how you can have 5 children in this world,...I'm scared to death to bring a child-up in this world. While it's not the dark ages, I feel the way it's built...well, it could be just a slip of a finger a way. Sort of like being in a car and not having control of the wheel...that's how I feel about the political direction. Paranoid, perhaps!?
I have news for you, most things do not apply to 99.99% of Americans. I hope you didn't think that just because there is an election every couple of years, the people really have anything to say about how the country is run and what decisions are made. Paranoid, for sure.
I find this statement to be very true, most people think that someone else will look after their country for them whilst they worry about shopping and fancy cars. A nation’s affair is every citizens responsibility, everyone must participate.
And generally those that cry out that they need to make hard choices or need to duck the government, but then call people calling for a long, hard uphill battle that they know would be gruelingly difficult dreamers... just want to take the easy way out, and call it the hard way or "reality".
If this was directed at me... I do not believe myself to be hypocritical in this. I have not said we should employ them and throw them out. I have said we should not employ them. I have not said we should be taking 'their' money and then denying them benifits. I have said they shouldn't have jobs here in the first place. You keep saying "We" to make it sound like I am responsible for the illegal activities of the buisness practices I am trying to fight. Some americans choose to employ illegal imigration. Others fight to get them punished, and remove incentives for illegal immigrants to come here illegaly, and to reduce incentives for current illegals to stay or come back. You say "one more time" and I know that leads to time again and again and again, and am sick of putting up with it. They are here illegaly. They don't DESERVE or have any right to expect the benifits you say they aren't getting. They shouldn't be here in the first place, and we shouldn't be giving them any incentive to come. That's a pretty consistent view point in my opinion.
You may have let them in, encouraging them to come in, and may be fighting for them to stay. I did not, am not, and will not.
I have to agree with what you’re saying. Illegal immigrants are breaking the law and should not be illegible to any sort of special beneficial treatment. If you don’t respect our immigration laws you will never respect our other laws and this has become quite evident. Many illegal immigrants now know that they are untouchable and there’s nothing they might do that will see them prosecuted. This is evident all over Europe.
You always make this comment ferret. I think I've said this also...while fairly effective [a mine field], I would assume most Americans wouldn't have the stomach. I myself wouldn't want that either. For normal illegal aliens, cutting off employment would be enough...either through mandate use of the system, right-to-sue Rico laws (which may eventually apply anyways), and uniformity through the American economy (banks included). Criminal drug dealer illegal aliens will always get through, but it's false to believe we can't stop the numbers. They cause a great deal of deaths in America... and should be impeded as long as we hold our current drug policies.
Couple things: Problem with this is they are here, they are already employed, and we can neither afford to do without them, or afford to get rid of them. Whereas we very well MAY have an opportunity to NOW strengthen our borders and keep this tide down, and demonstrate our indignation at countries such as Mexico for fairly well helping this "invasion," the fact is that WE, "the People" of the United States of America, were the ones that inspired it by giving these folks jobs, and not just the 12 million currently estimated as illegal but the other ones that received amnesty as well. It does no good now to raise the flag and sound the alarum. We have a mess on our hands - here in the country - NOW!!! You say we should just deport them. How - with whose money? Even Bush said this is not a reasonable answer. It's like leaving the back door open and then crying because the squirrels got in. Yours is no solution, but rather a much delayed reaction. So when you say: You are not addressing the real problem because that train left that station long ago. Now if you want to apply that logic to the issue of further illegal immigration - fine. Your forecast: would not be my solution. Again, I believe we should grant amnesty (for guest worker status only) to those here now, and build a wall around this New Jericho of ours that only God's very trumpets could bring down. And, if you haven't noticed - we are on the verge of said wall now. That makes your observation of "again and again and again" less realistic. There is a change. And a welcome one at that. You write: Yeah, but we sure take those benefit tax dollars they're paying, now, don't we? This reminds me of the old joke from Annie Hall where the guy goes to the psychiatrist and complains that his brother thinks he's a chicken. "Why don't you throw him in the nut house?" the doctor asks. "I'd like to," says the man "but I need the eggs." So again, when you say you have a "pretty consistent viewpoint" I am now forced to agree... but it is riddled with inconsistent attention to the problem you are discussing. See, there are really two questions at hand regarding illegals. 1. What do we do with them that are here now, and 2. What do we do with them that want to do the same. I hate to tell you, but your viewpoints are indeed INCONSISTENT in addressing the former. For you write: which is, of course, precisely what you are suggesting. As to the latter we would probably find much common ground there.
No. I am not saying we should deport them just to let them come back in. My entire focus has been on preventing new illegal immigration, which includes people who are thrown out being able to come right back across the border for less cost than it takes to send them to their country of origin. Deporting people makes 0 sense in the current situation, where they can just come back. Once that is done, then the problem of those that are already here should be addressed. If your boat is sinking, and you can't bail as fast as the water is coming in, you plug the holes, -then- deal with the water already in the boat. While I don't support granting legal status to illegal immigrants, if we first prevent new ones from coming, -then- grant amnesty, it would make more sense than granting amnesty with the assumption we will prevent a new influx... and then not doing so... and then granting amnesty again and again and again. To be clear. I am not advocating allowing new illegal immigrants to cross our border, allowing unethical business people to employithem, and then throwing them out. You are focused on the people already here. I'm focusing on how to deal with those that would other wise be coming, so that once we decide how to deal with those that are here, the effort won't be wasted. My viewpoint is not inconsistent. I don't think that the US (including business owners who use unethical and illegal practices) should employ illegal immigrants and then throw them out. My emphasis is on the first part of that statement. They shouldn't be employed in the first place. Then the throwing out part wouldn't be a problem. You say the boat has sailed on that. For those that are already here, you're right. Illegal and unethical practices have already been used by business owners and managers, creating a problem that must be solved. How do we solve the problem with those already here? Until we can prevent more illegal immigration, I don't honestly care, because the solution will be a bad and temporary one. One step at a time. What I do know is that giving any kind of benefit to those already here until we solve the problem with the illegal immigration will only make the problem of the influx of illegal immigrants worse. As for the problem of cheep labor, the answer is simple. Put a lower minimum wage on green card workers than on us citizens, or don't have one for them at all. The illegals have no minimum wage, so why not offer a legal way in for the same amount of money?
Amen. Like I said, I think when it comes to keeping others out we stand on common ground. And now I am greatly heartened to see we stand on common ground regarding those here already. Sanity and compassion equal remedy for them.
To anyone of any position...what do you think this? Why I ask...is because I think this might be a place where we agree....not sure, though. Here's some interesting info on criminal activity in LA county. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Note the bold. So the starting has a long way to go; but I'm thinking in the long-run, they're going to save money by sending these jackasses back home. The difference lies in federal authorities kicking in or states actually playing a role...and thank god the state (particularly the county) decided to play a role. http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...b05,1,2188265.story?page=2&cset=true&ctrack=1 Essentially they were non-effective. Since most criminal will commit more crime when let-go...they were costing us both financially, physically, and socially. Only the ACLU, and 'immigrant' right groups fought this change. I have no love for criminals. It's one thing to work hard ever day for your kid (the ideal image), but it's quite another to bring shit to this country. We already have enough of that, so we don't need it.
Amnesty isnt the solution. Once everyone hears about the amnesty down in Mexico guess what is going to happen? Millions more will pour over the borders hoping to get in on the next one.