Russia tops USA in arms sales and becomes world’s largest arms supplier

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Free Stuff, Jan 29, 2007.

  1. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #21
    And, as we all know. The people who build the houses, work at the art places, provide the services will not feel the pinch at all. Rich people live in this vacuum, of course.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/vi...t-utopia/2007/01/19/1169095977635.html?page=2

    Too bad socialism doesn't work. Never does. The only question is how long till things fall apart?

    It doesn't surprise me that lefitsts love Venezuela. It's their new Eden until it falls apart and they look elsewhere for failure.
     
    lorien1973, Jan 31, 2007 IP
  2. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #22
    This I don't understand. Why do so many that hate Bush love Chavez? I don't particular like how Bush operates, but I'm not kissing Hugo Chavez's ass.

    Other's say Venezula had a 'pitful election'.

    http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20051205-094913-3886r.htm

    According to Chavez....lmao

    Sure, buddy. Puff puff...pass.
    I'm curious as to what this article is asserting...the particulars.....???
    That's socialism buddy, not democracy. Democracy is a process of determining direction, socialism is an idealogy and is a direction.

    Huh?

    Yeah, I know...
    A true tyrant...
    [​IMG]
    And a midget anti-semitite
    [​IMG]

    Then why not move there chief? Seriously, if that's the place that going to suceed, live there and watch it 'prosper'. Let your feet do the voting.

    I'm sure many would love to trade place with you.
     
    Rick_Michael, Jan 31, 2007 IP
  3. Free Stuff

    Free Stuff Banned

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    #23
    No matter how bad Chavez may look in your eyes. No that many if any died on his orders. That's not the case with our commander in chief though.
    Also: Everywhere Bush goes he's greeted with "Anti-Bush" demonstrations. What does that tell you?
     
    Free Stuff, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  4. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #24
    That there are lots of stupid people out there who are unemployed?
     
    lorien1973, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  5. latehorn

    latehorn Guest

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    #25
    Back to topic. After doing a few minutes research, I concluded that the article is somewhat confusing after checking the report “Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations 1998-2005”. What I did viewed the pdf as html in google and searched for both 7.1 and 7.0(in case they rounded the number). I also searched for 7,1 and 7,0.

    What I found, was this table:
    Arms Transfer Agreements With Developing Nations, by Supplier, 1998-2005(I will show the numbers for 2005) in million dollars
    Russia 7,000$
    France 6,300$
    US 6,100$(12,731$ in 2000)
    Code (markup):
    Note: Developing nations category excludes the U.S., Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia and New Zealand. All data are for the calendar year given except for U. S.
    MAP (Military Assistance Program), IMET (International Military Education and Training), and Excess Defense Article data which are included for the particular
    fiscal year. All amounts given include the values of all categories of weapons, spare parts, construction, all associated services, military assistance, excess defense
    articles, and training programs. Statistics for foreign countries are based upon estimated selling prices. All foreign data are rounded to the nearest $100 million. The
    United States total in 2000 includes a $6.432 billion licensed commercial agreement with the United Arab Emirates for 80 F-16 aircraft.


    But here's the 'Arms Deliveries to Developing Nations in 2005' table: (in million dollars).
    1. United States 11,552$
    2. Russia 2,700$
    Code (markup):
    And since I couldn't find anything in the report that indicated on the Russia and $7.1 billion figure, I ask Gworld, FreeStuff, ferret and AGS to help me find it.

    To read the report type in this google "Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations 1998-2005".
     
    latehorn, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  6. Josh Inno

    Josh Inno Guest

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    #26
    It's interesting how numbers can be twisted this way and that by doing different kinds of research.

    As for helping the poor? I find it laudable for an individual person or a local community to help an individual person who is poor through no fault of their own.

    I find the idea that I should have to pay for a bumb to sit on his couch and watch TV because he doesn't want to work reprehensible.

    I find the idea that government programs can be as effective per dollar as small locally run operations laughable.
     
    Josh Inno, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  7. procrastinator

    procrastinator Peon

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    #27
    lords of war , sigh , india as what ? buyers ? yes we will be one of the biggest buyers due to the internal / external wars.
     
    procrastinator, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  8. Free Stuff

    Free Stuff Banned

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    #28

    Let me show you where you make a fundamental mistake.
    Not every poor man is lazy. Chavez is distributing Venezuala's mineral wealth to her citizens. Not like in some other countries where a few grab it all (or 90%) for themselves.

    Also I agree with you that people should be encouraged to find a job.
    Those who are unemployed, should do volunteer work every week; say for 15-20 hours if they want to get unemployment benefits. Then they'll figure it is financially better to find a job than getting welfare....
     
    Free Stuff, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  9. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #29
    Mineral wealt,h as you put it, doesn't conjure itself out of thin air. Someone (or some company) has to pay the expenses to find it, mine it, make it useful and sell. I fail to see how just because you live in a place, you are part of that chain. Until someone (or some company) does all this, its just a pile of rocks on the ground. You can still pay those people benefits with a pile of rocks sitting on the ground; just because a country has "mineral wealth" doesn't make it the property of everyone.
     
    lorien1973, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  10. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #30
    Even in USA, you have to buy the mineral rights from the government. If you BUY a government land, the mineral rights ON YOUR PROPERTY still belongs to the government unless in your purchase contract specifically mentioned that you are also buying the mineral rights. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  11. Free Stuff

    Free Stuff Banned

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    #31


    Let me explain you what you don't see, which in this case is really simple to me.
    Those who find it and mind it, get paid for doing it.

    Another thing you don't see is that Chavez is not that stupid to give 90% of the profits to those who do it.

    Put it this way. If you have a gold mine would you give 90% (after all expenses for mining and processing) of your gold to the mining company?
    If you say yes, you are either ignorant or just saying it to justify your previous posts.

    Chavez said no to the BIG OIL ROBERS. Bush and Oil co's don't like it - fine. That's not the end of the world. The Sun will rise tomorrow again for all.:)
     
    Free Stuff, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  12. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #32
    Are there economists that promote complete socialism? I'm not aware of any.
     
    Rick_Michael, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  13. Fervorite

    Fervorite Peon

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    #33
    Its good to know that there is still a healthy arms trade - bring on the space weapons!
     
    Fervorite, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  14. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #34
    I see what you are saying. You are justifying that the hard work of someone shuold be given to someone else who didn't earn it. It's pretty simple.

    Or I understand capitalism. One of the two. Again; you are suggesting that after expenses (paying employees, paying expenses to mine the gold and paying taxes on the profits), the government should come in and take more of it because it can? Is this what you are trying to convey.

    In another sense, if you have a website, why don't you pay out say 50% of your revenue (after taxes, I'll be nice) to each member of the forum. Seems fair doesnt it? Your hard work, their benefit. Sweet deal.
     
    lorien1973, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  15. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #35
    lol...I sort worry about this, but then again we're America, and we're good at making weapons. A vice and a virtue at the same time.
     
    Rick_Michael, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  16. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #36
    No; only politicians do that. :)
     
    lorien1973, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  17. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #37
    Yeah, I'm sure the margins aren't 90% or else I would be buying their stock. Most companies have margins from 5-10%. Sometimes more, but it's get rare with higher numbers. Most cost go to operation, labor, R&D (at times), and further exploration (in mining). Ideally...capitalism virtue is expansive productivity, efficiency and profit motive. Usually means more jobs, higher pay, and good tax revenue. Nationalization usually stifles all the virtues capitalism brings.

    No country depends on their public institutions for their economy...if they're sane. The depend on the private institutions.
     
    Rick_Michael, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  18. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #38
    I wouldn't mind reading an 'aclaimed' socialist economist. Although I've never known anyone of that extremism to point to a renowned economist to back their theory.

    I tend to think socialist grew-up big dreamers, and never gave-in to pratical economists. Sometimes I wonder if liberals read about how the economy works. I sure many do, but it always seems I run into those that don't. But then again, most of them aren't all-out socialists.

    To be fair though, I think 90% of America doesn't know anything about stocks or forex.
     
    Rick_Michael, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  19. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #39
    Look at this one. ;)
     
    gworld, Feb 1, 2007 IP
  20. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #40
    Marx was an economist? News to me.
     
    lorien1973, Feb 1, 2007 IP