This statement is really going to bring me around. I think I'll ponder how brilliant you are while I'm in line cashing my stack of checks at the bank tomorrow.
The largest blackhat people I know made 7 figures a year and used that to build other businesses that don't depend on SE at all faster than someone with a small budget could do. The continue to make 7 figures per year while you are making posts saying they are playing a short term game. It's quite silly, seriously.
Come to think of it, it seems Google really prefers GH (grey hat). My experimental site I mentioned above got indexed very quickly and I have a whole bunch of pages indexed (588 within a week). It never happened this fast for snow white sites. Unfortunately I had a computer meltdown this weekend, so I couldn't follow up on this. I already got a few visitors from Google too. Really Amazing how well this works. I don't even see a sandbox effect on this brand new domain. The content is perfectly legit, I only did a bit of cloaking to "optimize" the content. I wrote the cloaking script myself in a few minutes.
I'm sure any good black hatter can make 7 figures a year, if not more if they really wanted to put plenty of time into it, no argument there. But that's not the point, you missed it. Investing money earned with BH into other, more stable ventures with real longevity would be the smartest thing to do, which is what they are doing. Tell your friends congrats. I'm a lazy guy. I want to make sure my time put in will see earnings for years to come - unfortunately, you won't see this kind of return from BH. When it comes to BH, what works today Google craps on tommorrow. History shows this to be true.
You think they close up the easy money once they invest in long term though? They invest in the other methods because blackhat requires a regular some maintenence but to say it will just disappear one day is silly. Blackhatters are always evolving and staying ahead of the engines, they could lose everything today and have more traffic next month than 2 year old white sites.
Think about this, gentle readers. Do you create sites for the purpose of making money with Adsense or affiliate programs? Then you are a black hat in my book. A fellow "whore". The intent is the same. Get visitors to your site in the hope that they will click on your adsense or links. A WH (white hat) feels smug about using PLR articles (which are rubbish) and looks down on the BH for using a content spinner. A WH uses social bookmarking. So does the BH except he has software that will send the same links to 10 different user accounts on 20 bookmarking services. A WH tries to get backlinks. So does a BH but he gets more and faster. The WH will go to great lengths to carefully name the page, use keywords in headers, get the keyword density right and so on. Is this "real" writing? No. It is most unnatural and contrived. And so on. The WH/BH spectrum has no "line to cross". It is only a matter of degree and how hard you push the envelope. "You risk getting your site banned by Google!" Well big whoopy do. So what? A 70 cent domain name and 5 minute's work and I will have a new one. If you are whiter than white it doesn't mean Google is going to index and rank your pages in the top 10 and not mark them "supplemental" even if they are unique. Get this straight. Google is not your friend. They aren't the enemy either. More like an opponent to be out-wrestled two falls out of three. Anyway, so what? There is still Yahoo who will index more pages and keep them up forever. "My site won't last long!" Well perhaps not in Google, but then they might. I was pulling around $40 a day in adsense for six months from one scraper site on a free host. Its dead now so I'll even tell you the niche. Influenza. Think of a racing car. The more you "hot up" the engine the shorter the life. The faster you drive the more you risk a crash. But if you don't do the above you aren't going to win any races, are you? And if you DO win races the prize money is worth a few blown engines. Lastly.... "Ethics". What are "ethics"? Darned if I know. I'll bet my "ethics" are better than most lawyers, advertising companies, and politicans. I don't lie. I don't break the law and I don't hurt anyone or cheat anyone out of a penny. Bottom line= only "push the envelope" on sites you are willing to risk, and remember, people only get rich by giving good value and service over many years. Customers will be loyal and reward you for your caring and your honesty. Yeah.... right.
Nobody said BH domains get banned in a day - but chances are that over time it will. Who wants to put time and effort into something that will eventually get banned? To me, this sounds like a job. I stuck around here long enough so that I could quit my job. When I am looking at a business model I want something that is consistent and stable. In the end, it comes down to how we spend our time and what return we will see from it in the future. TerryG - if you aren't worried about your domain getting banned then it wasn't valuable in the first place. I treat my sites like a business, not a hobby. It's risk vs. reward. Ethics I could give a sh*t about. I just don't want you guys to put all your effort into something you won't be able show for in a year. Life is short guys, we all know that. The internet is still young and we are all on the ground floor, use this jump start in as best way as you can.
That's true. Yet if I was really pushing it I could probably make 1,000,000 pages in a day using 100 domain names. Each page will be "keyword targeted" with "unique content" and Addcents and/or affiliate links, plus RSS feeds, a sitemap and "self-growing" ability. Not only that but the sites will get backlinks automatically. Then load the links into Xrumer and UltraBookmarker and let them run overnight. How long did you say it took you to make a site? But wait, there's more! They are CLOAKED! I can spam the dickens out of them. If YOU follow the link You will see a page saying "account suspended" If a SEARCH ENGINE follows the link they will see a keyword rich page with links to other pages. If the search engine lists and ranks the site and a VISITOR clicks on the link they will see an adsense page or be redirected to an affiliate landing page. Magic? Yeah, sort of but if you are polite to my pal 18T you could be doing the same by tonight. Your choice.
Terry, it's true that the sites I make take longer to create than yours - but there's a stark contrast between our sites. The sites I make provide value to the visitors, therefore the foundation I lay now will be there for years to come (as well as earn). Value breeds longevity. I'm familiar with cloaking. The crap you dump on Google gets wiped up - maybe not now but eventually. In one years time (or less - as long as it's $10 a day) I will have valuable assets I can pay other people to continue to manage and give growth. In one years time you will still be working your ass off trying to stay one step ahead of Google. It's a nice job, but only that. I hope you don't want to work forever?
With andre statement, I totaly agree with that, But this system doesnt do everything for you. The "art" you talk about would be getting links, gaining rank etc etc... And yea, thats where you draw the line between someone who makes $1 a day, to someone who makes $100 a day. And to everyone complaining about this thing called "risk", yea there is risk, but imo the risk decreases when you make more sites. If you have 1 site, and your hoping to make millions of that, well, no you can't. That is where the risk comes in. but if i have 1000 sites, sure there is big risk for one of those sites to get banned in the next month, but its highly doubtfull that all those 1000 sites would get banned. And so what if they do? Just keep pumping out those sites. By the time you guys figure out how to add h1 tags and some meta tags, I already created 5 sites, its not difficult, you just need prior knowledge.
Now you are just talking nonsense to make yourself feed better about what you do by placing it above other peoples work. Your arguments make no sense period. You can wax philosophic about providing value to your visitors and laying your foundation for years to come but it is 100% irrelevant. We aren't even sure if the current domain system is what will be around in years to come, it could very well go out like the 8-track. All a black hat seo does in the sense everyone here keeps speaking of them is do the same thing YOU do at a much accelerated pace. With $500 and a big hard drive I can spit out thousands of pages that send tens of thousands of hits tomorrow. With the money I make by next week I can pay someone a full time wage to put up the same site you are pouring your blood, sweat, and tears into. All of this hard work you speak of is irrelevant as well being that it takes me about 20 minutes to get my scripts ready and another 20 minutes to find a keyword list I want to use. Other than that it's one click of a button and I can go hang out with the family or call my webmaster friends up to giggle at the effort they put into staying "within the rules" and building a site the "right" way that after a year performs at 1% of my "junk" sites. Nevermind that my "legit" site is already miles ahead of theirs because I can pay a team of webmasters to labor on it with all of my ill gotten gains. And finally, you talk about having to put in all this time and effort to stay ahead of the SE's. What time and effort? All of the information is out there, it's the same crap you read when you decide to put in a days work of site building. I just do it smarter and faster than you. You talk to people as if google gives a damn about you. You talk to people as if google has never and will never drop a "legit" site into SE hell with an algo change or just for kicks. A quick browse around this or any other forum will yield you enough whitehat SEO's wondering where their traffic went to prove this point, please don't pretend you are blind. Again, every single one of your points is ridiculous to the highest degree. Do us a favor, if you want to argue your side at least make an effort to have some basis to the crap you are spewing and enough common sense to take in what someone tells you. I'd really hate for you to work all these years only to have the lightbulb come on when you're burned out on the internet and selling your sites for a few months revenue over in the buy and sell. But hey, maybe you'll get a +1 on the itrader which is something your elitist personality should enjoy. Cheers
"A real blackhat is person with a lot of understanding of current state of the art technology who can exploit it to his/her benefit. NOT someone who signs up for an automated script and uses it. Those are lemmings wearing a little black hat thinking they are all so awesome." He is speaking of a "blackhat" not a "black hat seo". It appears he looked up the defenition of blackhat and went off on a holier than thou rant. A black hat seo, more commonly referred to as just blackhat these days, is precisely someone using these methods to rank well in search engines. It has nothing to do with understanding state of the art technology. If I were to guess I'd say he was completely talking out of his ass to look important. Since I am a negative rep magnet around here I'll back up what I say with the following: Definitions of blackhat on the Web: A skilled hacker who hacks for illegal and sinister purposes, sometimes political and economical, and not just for pranks. www.slais.ubc.ca/courses/libr500/04-05-wt2/www/B_Olmstead/Glossary.htm In the computer security community, a black hat is a skilled hacker who uses his or her ability to pursue their interest illegally. They are often economically motivated, or may be representing a political cause. Sometimes, however, it is pure curiosity. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackhat __________________________________ Definitions of black hat seo on the Web: This is Unethical SEO. Search Engine Optimization techniques and methods are employes which fall outside of the guidlines issued by the Major Search Engines such as Google, Yahoo and MSN. Implementation of this tyoe of Search Engine Optimization may provide short term gains for your site(s). If you are discovered as using these techniques you can be placed under a penalty by the Search Engine. ... www.oyster-web.co.uk/glossary.htm The actual line between the two is quite thin, but, Black Hat SEO refers to things that are considered dark, or spammy, while White Hat SEO refers to "good" SEO. I determine Black Hat SEO as anything that, A. breaks any search engines rules, B. effects the users experience on the site for the worse, or C. shows different content to different user-agents. www.realseo.net/related-terms/ ___________________________ Nuff said.
Very good points. Basically my stance on the subject.... Yeah I know quick $$$ but do you think Gates would be were he is today if he did that? What about page and sergey? What about Mr dell? Two different things. BH can get you banned optimizing won't. A lot of 'optimizing' methods have either been totally eliminated as factors or greatly disqualified. I do know on-site optimization what-so-ever.
*Cough bullshit cough* Guess you haven't read webmaster forums before. I've seen plenty of webmasters crying because they lost their google ranking from "optimizing". You act like search engines like you guys. Search engines don't like white hat seo's any more than they like us. Sounds like a quick read of the "webmaster guidelines" wold help out . Moving on from that, the statements about site longevity are hilarious. Again, i've got 6 month old generated domains still ranking quite nicely in google and yahoo. It takes me all of 5 minutes start to finish to put one of these up. Now lets assume they get banned in 6 months. In a 6 month period I can put up THOUSANDS of domains. I'll go cry myself to sleep on my 1,000 thread count sheets now