http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=2171623#post2171623 ^^^^^^^^Since the above issues on UK extremism, I thought I would post a thread for Illegal immigration for the people that wanted to talk about it. Discuss.
Carry over from Muslim thread: Get it right, it's ILLEGAL immigrants and I don't blame them for my problems, I blame them for their problems. Their problems are what brought them ILLEGALLY to my country from their country. Their problems are with a corrupt government and no pride of country...at least while they're living in their country. Once an ILLEGAL crawls their way into the US it's viva mexico all the way...lame. Their problems are why we have overcrowding in public hospitals. (It's a nice point that you don't care about legal Americans dealing with the crap. I suppose you just go back to canada and get treated there then?) Their problems of incarceration are a major reason why we have overcrowding in jails and a blood letting of the general fund to pay for it. Their problems of illiteracy are a major reason why we have overcrowding in the schools that my tax dollars pay for. Tax dollars that I guess you skirt to a major degree being a dual national? I'd love to know this actually. Their problems of poor innoculation are a reason why polio and other extinct diseases in the US have a chance of making an appearance again. I care about those poor slobs who have to take a bus to an overcrowded USC hospital ER and wait 15 hours even though I haven't had that displeasure in many years. Maybe you are too much of an idealist since you are not personally touched by the issues.
First of all you have to understand that we don't live in my country or your country or their country anymore. It is the 21st century and not 18th century and all countries economy are more or less dependent on each other. Part of today's problem in USA was caused by American corporation when they were looking for cheap labor over the border in Mexico. The jobs were moved to Mexican side to get cheap labor, the people from villages moved to places near the border to get job in these factories and then American companies decided that labor was cheaper in Asia, closed the factories and there was a lot of Mexican who had no place in their villages and no job and obviously they decided to come over the border in order to survive. These people have to go through all kind of humiliation in order to survive, so what you see as extra nationalistic attitude from them is their desperate try to keep some kind of dignity as human being. You will see the same phenomena in immigrants in Europe that try to take a pride in their homeland traditions in order to deal with their daily humiliation. There are a lot of problems in public sector like the use of resources, planning,... that exist independent of immigrants but it is always easy to make them an escape goats. I have seen the same kind of problem in parts of Europe that virtually no immigrants exist. I am a realistic person, so independent if these things touch my life or not and if I like it or not, I know that U.S. economy and European economy has gone too far in order to survive without the immigrants and therefore the only thing which is left is to try to identify the problems and make the best of it as we can. Dreaming about the time that has gone by or in reality never existed is not going to help anyone.
illiteracy... I live in New Mexico (I like to just call it Mexico) not being able to speak English isn't a problem here. You hardly ever hear it spoken in public. You go to Wal-mart, you walk in the door and the ads are in Spanish, what do you hear on the intercom?? SPANISH what are the products, 70% FROM MEXICO (In SPANISH) what are the customer's speaking on their cell phones and yelling at their kids in? SPANISH. Even the music they play in the stores here are Spanish. Being able to speak English here isn't needed because no matter where you go you find employees speaking Spanish. I went to the college here the other day and couldn't find any information about classes in English... I had to ask for it and they had to look for it!! When they were protesting here last year for MORE FREE STUFF the street's were PACKED with Mexicans and I mean PACKED, ALL, flying the Mexican Flag. Still today you can't go anywhere around here with out seeing these freeloaders wearing Mexican flag shirt's, or Mexican flag window tint's on the back of their brand new 2006 f-250 trucks with 6 inch lifts and 22 inch rims you don't get that shit picking berries you get it from taking good jobs from good Americans. Hell, I was in the hardware section of wal-mart about a month ago and noticed safety goggles with the MEXICAN FLAG on them. One thing that really pisses me off, They all say oh we're here doing jobs Americans won't do. It's BS. Is that why they all take jobs at home depot, Wal-mart, fast food places and every other type of business known to man? Just 2-3 months ago Dean Baldwin, an aircraft painting company here in Roswell got busted with I think a dozen illegals. Those ppl working there get paid GOOD MONEY. I'm sure that 12 Americans who could use a good job like that would have wanted it if it hadn't been for the damn illegals taking it from them and sending the money back to Mexico. I could go on and on about this issue. I understand that it is hard for some to understand just how bad it is when they are living their "good life" they've made for themselves but they all need to open their eyes and see that America is quickly becoming a new America. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I get SO MAD.!!!!!!!!!!
I saw this joke yesterday that is relevant to this threead: There is no question that the USA is undergoing a Mexican invasion much like Europe is undergoing a Muslim invasion. I think their 2006 marches worked against the illegals because most Americans became aware of the size of the problem for the first time. The USA problem is really pretty simple to solve, but I don't know of any politicians who have the balls to do two simple things. 1. Stop providing public benefits to illegal aliens. 2. Start placing some serious fines and jail sentences on employers who knowingly hire illegals. A third issue would require a constitutional change. 3. Do not allow babies born to illegal aliens to automatically become citizens. The two first items alone will solve the majority of the problem in the USA. Take away the honeypot and the bees will leave.
A very simple question and let' see if you can answer it. Why these American companies will take a risk (even a small one) and hire illegal Mexicans instead of Americans when as you claim there are many Americans who want the same job with the same pay? Please don't tell us, they hire them because everyone in USA just LOVES illegal Mexicans. Any thoughts about social /economocial consequences of your "solution"? This is my post from the other thread: Do you any answer to these questions?
I think it boils down to this....democrats love free votes...and illegal's are equal to several million of them. Hence the reason they always try to block things in regard to illegal immigration, such as the wall. It all boils down to how many votes the dems will get...always.
Profit Margin. If tomorrow Inuits showed up at those companies' doors working for $0.05 less, Mexicans would be gone. Hourly wage of $10, verses under the table $10 do not equate to the same on the books. $10 wage is actually about $12.50 to $13 to the business, and $10 under the table is a potential tax savings of $0.50 to $1... I have yet to see a true source for the number of illegals, and how much money they truly contribute to the US economy. As soon as you can provide that, I will dig up the financials about how the economy will (or not) collapse. You are absolutely correct. Politicians will dare not to speak out, but not because of economy, but because they make implied promises of welfare for the illegals for a vote. Politicians will never give that up. As 313i indicated, I do not think that the illegals from Mexico are the same as our grandparents who dedicated their lives to make a new permanent life in the US. I have yet to meet a first generation Mexican who does not send money back to Mexico and is not set to return. Most of the supposed economics they create is shipped to Mexico in hard cash format. If they do create such economic profit, it is immediately taken out - it is a wash. Which would make the "economic sky will fall" a fallacy.
My dad used to work at a company that employed mexicans...every 6 months, the mexicans would leave and be gone for 6 months. then they would come back with a different SS card...one of them told my dad that for that 6 months, they live like kings in mexico...must be nice.
I ID more with democrats than republicans and I think your theory is crap. I can't stand ILLEGAL ALIENS. I think the second biggest problem in the US is the ginormous polarization between the perceived party idiology by the average citizen. It has become a virtual civil war being fought everyday on TV; O'Reily and Limbaugh vs. Oberman, et al. I don't know who started the war between the parties, but in the meantime it has flushed our citizens down the toilet and reduced them to numbers on a silver screen. It's crap. The US party system used to inspire people. Recently, however it has become a joke and a rubberstamp. Comments like yours are no help. So, let's just focus on the facts instead of us vs. us. It's us vs. them, remember? Aside from that, you are dead on...
Ugh. This topic makes me physically ill.... It's real easy for the limp-wristed lefties to blather on about the value of the immigrant to American society from their desk in Kennebunkport or Branson or Spokane or Cedar Rapids or Vail. Try living in Phoenix. Here's a news flash for you: NOTHING is "cheaper" because of the so-called cheap wages. I pay the same for my lettuce that anyone else does. Here's what IS more expensive: HEALTHCARE - because taxpayers pay the medical expenses of indigent workers injured when they drink too much beer and fall out of the orange tree, or when they pile 17 people in a Chevy Metro with a ladder and a lawnmower to go to work every day and drive into a ditch. INSURANCE - because half the cars on the road at any given time are uninsured against liability, in clear violation of the law, and if you get hit by one, it's YOUR uninsured motorist coverage that has to pay. VEHICLE REGISTRATION - because a car with non-US plates can be driven into the US, it doesn't have to pass emissions, it's often poorly-maintained and ill-suited for travel, and uses our roads without contributing to the "pool" of money used to maintain them. PRODUCTS and SERVICES - companies have to spend more money on security (lots of desperate people with nothing to risk except deportation), maintenance and cleanup (ever seen what 250 day laborers do in a parking lot?). EMERGENCY and POLICE SERVICES - call it profiling, call it discrimination, call it whatever the hell you want, I'm not politically-correct, but I do hold an M.S. in Criminal Justice Administration: Certain segments of the population are responsible for a disproportionate amount of criminal activity (and with it, risk for injury). WAGES - the workers are in control - demands for higher wages because the employer is "held hostage", one illegal squeals and the gig is up. Plus, there's always the bonus for bilingual employees - a requirement because half the customer base speaks no English. All this is passed on to the consumer.
I tell you what makes me sick...people who think in terms of blue and red. How can I make this any more clear: this is not a democrat / republican issue. You are being brainwashed. I live in Los Angeles. I usually find the democratic candidate has more of my family's best interest in mind and YET, I think freely about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. To try to paint the ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION issue as a democrat problem is a cop out, an excuse, and a minimization of the larger problem. There are plenty of democrats who feel just as I do. Stop following the media spinners and start connecting to real people. Calling people democrats like it's derogatory is reducing them to a word. It is the same psychology of road rage. You rage against that damn Honda, not the father of four who is in a rush to pick up his sick kid from daycare...do you get this analogy? We are all Americans. A vast majority of them are SICK AND TIRED of handing our money over to people who slither across the border to lessen our quality of life because their country sucks. Those people need to stay and fix Mexico (or where ever), just like Americans need to stand up and fix America against this / these invasion/s. Again, we are talking about ILLEGAL immigration, not those who come to American legally, through the proper process and who bring money and skills to the table. So, save your off topic posts about how my family came here, blah blah blah...save it.
Hope that wasn't directed at me - I see nothing in my post about political parties. Regardless, I think we agree on the larger points - LA may have it even worse than PHX.
It was directed at you and we do agree on larger points, but please don't muddy up the issue by saying the immigration issue is a democrat problem. It is an American problem. By saying it is one groups problem over another, it is easy for people to tune out and say not me. Hence the issue will go unresolved and will undoubtably turn to the ridiculous, pointless, neverending argument of red vs. blue. The only way to really make a change is if the discussion stays on target and does not get reduced to that lame argument. It's not just you, however. Too many people who debate these hot topic issues move to R v B because it diverts attention away from the core issue when they have nothing left to say. Like me - here, for instance
Finally a smart answer, illegal immigrants are in US because AMERICAN employers want them to be in US. The government wants them to be in US and it is not about votes, it is about cold hard cash and profit. Let's start with social security tax and Medicare tax. How much tax do you think government collects on those false social security numbers every year when they know very well that these people don't exist and they never need to pay out these money?
Is this rhetorical or are you setting us up? If neither, maybe you can spend your time looking this up. I don't need these stat's to justify my opinion.
So thats why they send millions of $$ every year back to mexico? So it can support OUR economy? As far as tax goes, they don't collect any...that is one of the biggest problems. Most illegal immigrants get paid cash under the table. Even if they do have a SS card, they don't file taxes, because that could be a way to get them sent home...instead they just get a new SS card...more reason we should go to the fairtax and eliminate the IRS.
You assume (incorrectly) that the majority of illegals (and their employers) even BOTHER with SSN's, false or legit. Most who DO bother do so as "exempt", never file tax returns, and don't pay into the system anyway. The burden FAR outweighs the contribution.
In this case, what is your opinion about the direction your country should take based on? Is it based on you watching a Mexican pee in the bushes and thin air?
Please one of the Americans who actually work and knows about how a pay check looks like and the deductions for social security tax and Medicare tax, explain to d16boy why is his post just a nonsense. Most big companies require a false SSN, in order to cover their ass.