can you please present a coherent plan as how to prevent this takeover? I mean if everyone agrees with your view and follow your lead. no need to convince us that you are right, just lead what would you suggest the British do please explain step by step so we can follow your game plan to victory of course every one can present a plan
Here is the plan. First, we will buy some balls for all the bigots on this board, so they won't be such a chickens that only can post their hate posts on the forums and then they can tell us what they want to do.
Gtech I watched that documentary you posted on UK mosques. It was interesting. I myself am not quite on the same pages as you, but I'm curious as to your direction on this.... I believe UK can solve this issue by demanding higher standards in immigration, and perhaps moderating the number immigrating to the country. I personally do not fear every single muslim in America. Although our system is designed to take-in family first...which is mostly latin, and myself have problems with how it's done. I do feel it's a bit safer in the long-term in comparison to Europe. In Europe they immigrate roughly a million muslim a year. Now while I'm sure many of these people can be handled correctly, I'm very certain that many will remain in poverty (like France), and many will not intergrate well. I think it's vastly important that the EU and the US review the importance of whom they let in the country and if they really need them. I don't think it's possible to eliminate all extremism from any country, but higher standards are important...especially in immigration. If people remember, we had the nation of islam in America once. Organizations such as the nation of Islam, KKK, skin-head, black pathers...all were deficient in one manner. They could not grow after time. There extremism had no valve to feed them. Immigration in Europe feeds almost unfiltered good and bad people into their system. If you look at hitler, he had: 1) the enviroment ripe for the picking ie people were looking for someone to lead them because of the impoverished conditions 2)the utter will to do anything to get where he wanted. And truely that's all that's necessary. A few insane people and an enviroment that allows them to flourish. All german's were not crazy...so goes my view with muslims. Although I don't take 'liberal' aproach. I don't just assume every muslim is my buddy or pal...no, we're not all going to hold hands and sing 'coonbiya'. I ask [idealistically] the most out of the people that come here,...regardless of beliefs or race. I believe this should be the guiding principle of every first-world nation. Yes there's room for poor people, and yes there's room for educated people...but we must weight the demands and the results. Europe has to figure out what it truely needs and what it truely doesn't want imo.
This is always one of my fav tactics. If there is not a plan, there cannot be a problem. Despite the overwhelming presence of data that says otherwise. Attempt to call for a plan to dismiss there is a problem.
i hope GTec can just put a plan forward and not simply answer gworld. since Gtech have been thinking about this for a year he must have a good plan and i just want to know what it is gworld i would really want to know if you have a plan also if we agree that you know the best what do you think it should be done. do you see a problem? what is it? how do we go forward?
no if there is not a solution and a plan there is no usefull understanding of the problem it is not just enough to see the fire we must find a way to put it out don't you think so
It was interesting. What goes on behind closed doors and what is said to the press in public are very often two different things. This documentary highlighted that and confirms the ever growing problem that exists there. The same problem exists in the US as well. Heritage House published a report about extremism being preached in US mosques a few years ago. I believe last year, the report finally made it's way to Congress. Where am I going? Purely information. I track what goes on in a number of countries with respect to islamic extremism and the problem in Europe is dismal at best. France is suffering the worst right now, but the UK is definitely running a close second. Knowledge is power. While it's clear who wants to suppress such information; the gworlds, the nokiakings, the AGS, the KLBs; who want to sweep these issues under the rug and pretend there is no problem, they run into the same consistent problem when attempting to do such. Information. Good information, which I keep track of (as per the many links posted in this thread) can expose a problem when others seek to obfuscate it. Curtailing immigration is too late. The problem already exists, en masse. Granted, curtailing immigration might help down the road, but it won't solve the mess that exists today. To solve that, the UK (I'll use them in this example) must crack down on those preaching, subscribing to and endorsing what we see in the mosque videos, what's being reported almost daily in the papers, etc. By that, I mean deporting these guys. Indeed, they will take heat and probably an uprising over it, but they either deal with it now, or it's too late. One doesn't need to fear *every* muslim. I see arguments like this often, where "all" is the common denominator, but it's not the common denominator at all. "All" and "every" should not be the standard before recognizing problems exist. There are many good muslims, despite their religion. That's not the issue. The issue is, the UK has an overwhelming problem with "extremists" in their presence. Report after report after report confirms this. Either they deal with it, in a way that may require setting "multiculturalism" and "political correctness" aside, or they surrender down the road. Division is not going to happen amongst muslims. They are not going to "divide" over the issue, they will stick together. The division, to their advantage, almost always comes from the kaffir. The non-believers. The kaffir will divide over the issue. Some will recognize the problem, some will attempt to obfuscate the problem, others really don't care. There is no cohesion among the kaffir, where there is cohesion among muslims. That is to their advantage. They should have done this fifteen years ago. It does seem, at least at times, that some in Europe are "waking up." (I hate to use that term, but it's the most rational term that comes to mind).
yes but i do not think it is as big as you think it is and i disagree with some of your assumptions one is that it is a religious fire. i think it is a political fire mascarading as religious this is another mistake even in this forum multiple moslems have told you that they do not agree with you and this is not religious and they do not want to follow these troublemakers yet you chose to agree with the one with the match and insist that god have told them to do these things
That's what I thought As I noted above, the tactic is a fav to watch unfold. It has a very predictable pattern. By calling for some elaborate solution, it takes the discussion from the problem itself, to attacking anyone who suggests a solution. Watch for it. It's as predictable. Those who wish to obfuscate the issue will take this path to silence opposition. I left just enough *bait* in my reply to Rick to prove the point. My guess is, gworld will bite first
by the way i have asked around and kafir means nonbeliver acording to them christian and jews are belivers.
well then we wait for your plan hopefully you have one in a few years i really don't belive in just yelling fire fire and going to a state of shock and panick. as i told you before there are millions of muslems quran was written more than a 1000 years ago do you think you have a stonger argument than it does or you are just scared of it and screaming in fear
I don't think you really believe in anything. You've already admitted you know nothing of the topic and continue to confirm this with virtually every post. What is *your* agenda? http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1984530,00.html Is this what you support, pizzaman? Nope, nothing here to see folks, let's bury our heads like pizzaman. But wait, there's more! This is what you are defending, pizzaman. Are you comfortable with that?
Before even attempting to solve this problem, you should understand what is happening and different shades in these groups and immigrants. 1) The majority of people inherit their religion because they are born in to it and not because they have decided to become a Christian, Muslim,..... Therefore as not all "Christians" go to church and quote bible, not all "Muslims" go to Mosque or read Koran. Many of the young people who are born in to a Muslim family in Europe will much prefer to drink, party and get in Blond girl pants than go to a Masque and pray. 2) There is part of Muslim immigrant groups that wants to go to Mosque and honor Islamic traditions but this group is also divided to different sections. A) Old and poor people who immigrated to Europe in search of better life and job. This group look at Mosques as a social gathering with their country man. They are usually very conservative because of their social upbringing but they are not looking for trouble and are thankful to their new country for giving them a better life. B) Young and poor people who mainly are born in Europe. These young people have grown up in the same government ghettos as their parents but they believe they deserve better and angry at hidden racism in the society that they believe it is keeping them in ghetto even if they are born in that country. These people didn't join the gangs and start using drugs and instead will be used as the soldiers for the Islamic fanatics. C) Successful young people, educated but they feel that they can not achieve their full potential in the society because of their hair and skin color. They will look at western world exploitation of their home countries (even if they have never been there) and feel more humiliated. They will make up the brain and intellectual group of fanatics. Islam is just away for them to fight back the humiliation and unfairness that they feel. On top of these groups, you will have your usual agitators and spies that try to use these people for their different political and economical goals. For example if you look at the video, you will see that those people are from Saudi Arabia, the mosque is financed by that country and even one of the directors has political immunity. My question will be, why the rulers of a country which is famous for corruption and have a close relation to USA, would want to finance such extreme groups? In order to stop these social problems, the European countries as the first step need to end their unofficial racism and start moving these people out of ghettos and in to the society. They have to convince the intellectuals that they will have a chance to participate in the society with their full potential. Remove the intellectual leadership and the young soldiers from the fanatic groups and they can not succeed no matter how much the agitators and the spies try.
that is what i said here is a big diffrence between me and you i think that all kafir means non beliver in abrahamic god and every effort must be made to prove that and expose the lies that some "muslem scholars" feed their followers and expose their lies and discredit them. on the other hand you agree with them i think we should accept and promote those that agree with us and you try to prove them wrong and tell them that god wants them to kill the jews and christians. whose side are you on
by the way i belive most of these fanatic preachers are from muslem brotherhood i hope you did a little study put up a plan Gtec if you have been saying these things for a year then put up a plan atleast outline a concept you just point to fire we all agreed there is a fire you are just more scared. thats all you see the fire higher than it is
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/14/AR2005071401912_pf.html Sure doesn't seem like poor people who didn't or couldn't realize their potentials.
As usual a stupid post by Gtech without even reading or thinking, read about group C in my previous post.
gworld, lighten up a bit. I know you get real defensive about terrorists, but not everyone feels the same way about them as you do. From c):