Dear all, On 3rd of Jan 2007, a person by the name of Mike with email zude2002@gmail.com and MSN zude2002@msn.com has made a fraudulent purchase for a hosting site I developed and designed. The whole site can be viewed at http://www.coderdesigner.com/Host I developed and designed the site. I'm writing everyone a message here to warn everyone NOT to sign up their hosting packages when they see the above stolen site. The site is sold only exclusively so only the fraudulent buyer owns a copy of it. And I will not sell this site to anyone again. I can't tolerate cheat and will seek legal advice to file a case against Paypal and this fraudulent buyer. This briefly what happened.. A payment is made by this fraudulent buyer on 3rd of Jan 2007. I checked the payment mode made is instant and not by credit card. He proceed to contact me at MSN after the payment is made. We chat on MSN and I prepared the files for him to review online and zipped up a copy for him to download from my server. Everything goes on smoothly until I received an email notification from Paypal stating the fund is unauthorized and my account is freezed. This is the very first time I encountered this despite I've been providing online services and received payments by Paypal for years. I was fluttered and tried to contact the fraudulent buyer and I assumed it could be a misunderstanding. The buyer did not respond to my MSN message. Within mins after I MSN him for clarification, I received an email from the said Paypal account owner stating he doesn't authorized the transaction and demand a full refund else he will commence legal actions. It is only to my awareness that this could be a fraudulent case. I MSN the fraud buyer and told him I have logged his IP which I really did. He quickly responded stating he doesn't know what happened. While MSN with the fraud buyer, I simultaneously replied the email to the said PP account owner for verification and I requested the PP owner to sign in to MSN for verification. The PP account owner was suddenly not responsive and I carry on with the MSN conversation with the fraudulent buyer alone. The conversation turns ugly which he insisted this is an issue with PP and because I use PP, I am responsible for this to happen. He last sentence in the conversation ends with " learn a few lessions your ****ing american, lovely 9/11, I partyed that day oh what fun" and that said PP account owner signed in shortly after. And instead of having the conversation with the fraudulent buyer and I together, he opened a new window and at that moment, the buyer disappeard offline. Yes, I do SUSPECT both identities belong to 1 person but I will not revealed much details on this part at this moment of time because I do not want the fraudulent buyer to get prepared to cover his ass. I am very disgusted and disappointed by the way Paypal has handled this. After receiving Paypal notification of unauthorized fund, the email request me to sign in to the resolution center to resolve it. HOWEVER, when I clicked the resolved button, there isn't any appropriate option for me to state my case as my item is not shipped, it is being downloaded. And when I click on "open a dispute", the options are meant solely for BUYERS only. Puzzled for a while and not knowing what to do, I use the option for OTHER and typed in a few lines telling me that I have logged all correspondences and the IP address which I will forward to them immediately when they requested it. And before I get relieved from the dismay and I spent the entire day worrying and hoping for their call or email, Paypal closed the case within 36hours the dispute is opened!! I was informed by a few short sentence stating the unauthorized access is valid and the case is closed. I, the seller, who have lost both items and money are not being asked for verification are shocked of how can this be justified? And I'm also liable for the transaction fee incurred!! This is ridiculous! I have tried to contact Paypal after the case is closed. I tried to call PP but all I received is auto helpline which I couldn't find the appropriate group and I tried to go to the Help center and couldn't find the appropriate option to send my concern. The whole help center is designed to help Buyers to complain against Sellers and for PP to increase their users base. But I still send it under the option of Seller Protection Policy. I have also tried to email Paypal numerous times asking for verification on what are the steps they have taken to justify the case is closed? How do they proof that the access is unauthorized and how do they proof that the two identities are of two individuals and not in cahoots? I was utterly angry with this and I can truly understand why that fraudulent buyer is laughing at me choosing Paypal as the payment gateway. The fraudulent buyer is obviously taking advantage of Paypal's inability, reluctance and lack of attention to protect their sellers from fraudulent acts. The most hilarious part is, yesterday, I received a bounced mail from the email address I sent to Paypal. And today, I received an email from Paypal today telling me they have noted the transaction detail and THAT is a reply of mine which I sent within 5 mins on the very FIRST day I received the unauthorized fund notice. That means they closed the case even without even knowing what happened. WTF!! And please all, do not allow this fraudulent buyer to get away easily. I DID NOT sell any copy of this site to anyone and only to that fraudulent buyer who cheated it. So, there shouldn't be anyone owning it except that fraudulent buyer. Do not let any innocents to fall into his trap again! He is setting up a hosting business and I am sure he will read this post here. I've seek legal advice and I'm filing a suit against Paypal and the fraudulent buyer with all the proofs I have collected and documented. It is very obvious and clear that Paypal has encouraged fraudulent attempts by their lack of commitment and dedication to their users. Being rich and influential doesn't not give them the rights to led us by the nose. I'm giving a chronological view of the whole incident and I'll follow up with more details. I will only do so after the case is filed and the hearing is done. And the identity of the Paypal account owner will be revealed after the filing is made. If you are that fraudulent buyer reading this, I've given you chances to admit it and paid for it but you disregard it. I will honour my word and make sure everyone gets what they deserved. This is my hardwork which I spent time and effort doing it and you take it away within mins without guilt, I've told you it is going to cost you 100 times more when you cheat. Be very prepared for it. Best Regards, C.D
Yeah, you got SCREWED. Same thing happened to me a while back. Exact same deal with a $900 purchase, and I got all the blame. I couldn't do anything about it and they locked my account and sent it to their debt collection agency. This is why I use Google Checkout and will never touch Paypal again. There are some tricks to beating the system if you know what you are doing though. Paypal does not cover digital (anything non-tangible, things that don't have tracking numbers), if they buyer makes a claim as "not as described", you can escalate it to a claim and it will be closed in your favor becuase Paypal doesn't cover online goods. If the claim is made as "not received", the buyer will win. I think that's how it goes, it's been about 6 or 7 months since I've used Paypal so I may be forgetting some things. In your situation, it sounds like you had no way at all to win. Calling or emailing Paypal will never do any good. Good luck with the legal action.
Sorry to hear about this. Unfortunately there are some people like this. Simply abstruse. Best of luck in getting over it. But I have to agree, PayPal doesn't give enough protection for sellers. I think the best you could do now is release the template for free looking for backlinks as a means to get back on this buyer. That is, if you aren't going to go into serious legal action against him. Anyways, best of luck.
But isn't Google "the big machine"? Shouldn't we "stick the finger to the man!" ? But then again eBay + Paypal are quite big. Should I start my own emoney business with that Paypal script from alstrasoft (or anyone like it) and keep it "open source" away from the big corporations *my war face* I hope everything works out for you, especially with that legal action.
There are shameless people. Before you do business make sure they have some Green and some iTrader. That will give some reason for them to behave properly. Thanks
This type of situation probably worries a lot of us. I'm assuming a way to avoid this with paypal&digital goods is to mail a physical copy of the digital product on CD, tracked via coruier as proof of the transcaction/sale? Does anyone know if that would suffice?
Why do you think I have no way to win at all when you don't even have a clear picture of what's going on? This reminds me of how Paypal is handling this whole transaction and how every reacts to fraudulent transactions. The fraudulent buyer is taking advantage of all these common reactions to reason his acts to be able to get away scot free without bearing the consequences. But I really thank you for the well wishes on the legal action and I strongly believe I do not need good luck with the facts and information I have.
I am very serious in seeking legal action against Paypal and the fraudulent buyer. This decision is not made on the spur of the moment. The fraudulent buyer is the only one who have a copy of it and I'm going to make it useless for him. This is to protect other innocent parties to fall into his fraudulent acts again. A person with such level of integrity is not fit to be involved in any business transactions and he has to pay a very high price for it.
I alway believe if you are honest and act with a high level of integrity, when things screwed up, you will have a high chance to claim back what you have lost if you make an effort for it. We don't need to avoid any forms of transactions with Paypal, we just need to make sure we conform to a high level of integrity and honesty in our transaction and do not let anyone to take away what you have worked hard for easily.
Dear all, Thank you for your response on this matter. Paypal has yet to give me a satisfactory explaination on justifying the closing of the case. An email is dispense to them 2 days ago to request them to respond to my enquires with an explaination on the steps they have taken to investigate the case before I promptly file the case. They have replied with no explaination besides telling me they have investigated and confirmed the fund is unauthorized. They are testing my patience and tolerance on their lack of attention to fraudulent transactions and protection for their sellers. With all the conversations logged between the fraudulent buyer and the said Paypal account owner, I have enough reasons to suspect this is not an unauthorized access. I do agree there is an element of risks if we choose to transact online and we are subjected to risk fraudulent transactions by this avenue. And there are times we just have to chalk this to the experience book and move on but this particular incident is getting on my nerve not only because of the value of the item lost and being deceived, it is the unsettled feeling by the way Paypal has treated their users. I know there are numerous sites that have explicitly shown how Paypal is reknowned for their lack of attention to fraudulent transactions and it is exactly because of many have chosen to forget about it and move on to escalate this as "it is common" and hence Paypal did not do anything to correct it. If there are more people refuse to back down by unfair treatments, there will be less people worrying about fraudulent transactions. I have not posted the MSN conversation I had with the fraudulent buyer here, if I do, you will clearly know that he is explicitly taking the advantage of the loopholes and the trend that most people will remain silence about it to reason his acts. I do not want to be the one who cries and bit** about the experience and not doing anything about it to claim back what I believe I deserved. I don't know if what I'm doing is worth the effort and neither am I going to justify my attempt to file against them as a measure of cost. All I know is, I shouldn't be the one who bears all the consequences of others irresponsible and dishonest acts. And if I don't do something now, the cheat will believe he can get away another time and there will be another victim. And if another victim is not going to do anytihng about it, there will just be another. Despite my numerous attempts and considerable effort made to reach Paypal for clarification, and my numerous attempts to offer my side of information to help in the investigation process, Paypal disregarded all my responses. Paypal is not acting on the sellers behalf and has not fullfiled their promises to their sellers. The lack of attention to fraud reports has indirectly encouraged the increased rates of fraudulent transactions. I'm only hoping you gentlemen and ladies can help by warning other innocents about the site that was taken unrightfully. We will never know if the next possible victim is really able to afford to take the blow both in monetary and emotional terms. I've emailed Paypal to let them know I'll proceed with a legal action against both Paypal and the fraudulent buyer and I will. This is a test of faith and a challenge of justice. Regardless of all cost, I will be sure everyone gets what they deserved. To all, I have already made up my mind to pursue this matter through legal means, hence, do not reply to my post questioning my rationality to do it in a mocking manner or laugh at my attempts, ultimately win or lose, I'm the one who face the consequences, not you. I'd really appreciate if you offer some advice, tips to share with me to state my case and offer a helping hand to stop others from falling into his trap again. Thank you for your time taken and consideration. Regards, C.D __________________
This is something I have to add... Any forms of online payment methods will work.. either Paypal, e-gold, moneybookers... You'll just have to make sure you cover your ass by making sure you keep all the documents with you and conduct a honest transaction and you'll be at least 70% safe if things scew up. The other 30% will depends if you are willing to fight back to get what you deserved or you choose to bit** about it, suffered the emotional disbalance, the lost of money without doing anything and allow another innocent person to go through your plight again. Do not entirely blame Paypal for their lack of attention when you do not fight hard for their attention and show them you mean business. You too play a part in encouraging fraudulent transactions if you choose to remain silence and justify this as a measure of cost. Regards, C.D
What a sick freak. I dont agree with our President, and I'm sure most of the world doesnt, but that was completely uncalled for. I lost a close member of my family on 9/11. Some people need shot. RIP. Gregory R. Sikorsky Sorry about your money / template.