As I read posts here on Digital Point I see a lot of good questions and answers. However I do also see a lot of negative responses and just plain being mean. People are here to get help, to converse with one another and meet like minded people. I am completely new to web design and enjoy meeting you guys and learning new things. I am however afraid of asking questions due to being put down and cussed out for asking so called "stupid" questions according to people like DeathShadow. Therefore my question is. Why when people ask simple questions does DeathShadow feel it neccisary to belittle people instead of answering the questions the have and leaving it at that?
There's nothing wrong with @deathshadow's responses, he may be a little blunt at times but he knows what he's talking about and if people actually grew a backbone and listened to him instead of whining like babies at his responses they might actually learn something.
The trouble is, these people then share their ignorance, spreading bad information and practices. Those, and I include myself, who want the web to work well for everyone, want you to know what you're doing and why. Personally, I get tired-head dealing with people who post unmitigated crap code and when get called on their lack of qualification, they get their panties in a twist and pitch a hissy fit. @deathshadow has more patience, to the point of rewriting the poster's entire page, then piece by piece explaining what he's done, why he did it and how it benefits the site's visitors. Don't like his bluntness? Get over it (he can be obnoxious; ignore it). Grow a pair, put on your big-boy pants and study his points. There is no glory in defending your own ignorance. Read How to ask questions the smart way. If the the idea of leaving kindergarten frightens you, buy some finger paint and keep scribbling on the wall. gary
Once you have been on the internet as long as I have, you realise that if you do get anyone giving you a hard time or being unpleasant for no real reason, then the best way to deal with them is just to ignore them and not engage with them, and wait until someone helpful comes along. So, that is what I suggest you do.
Like I said alot of people that get on here are new to coding and web design in general. Thats why they post what you call "Crap Code". Because the are LEARNING. Yet you want to say grow a pair of balls? lol sorry but at one point you were writing crap code and so was DeathShadow. Dont be a disrespectful asshole because you know more than someone else.
Well, if you are referring to my reply about the web tools, you asked about rubbish that results in broken buggy websites, and I told you EXACTLY that. There are a lot of just plain dumb tools and broken methodologies that prey upon the ignorance of those just starting out -- been that way for years. Looking back I wish someone had pimp-slapped me about this stuff fifteen years ago the way I'm pimp slapping people starting out today. Slapping the rose coloured glasses on your head, then telling you everything is going to be fine before leading you down the garden path to sing kumbaya around a drum circle is NOT a recipe for success -- no matter how many soft, limp-wristed namby-pamby wussies can't seem to handle legitimate serious discussions or JOE FORBID calling something EXACTLY what it is. There's just so much halfwit nonsense right now pissing all over websites and packing nubes so full of sand they could change their name to Sahara, much less endless web-rot bull it's a miracle websites are even usable by anyone anymore. From goofy "framework" garbage making people work harder instead of smarter, to preprocessor nonsense covering up developer ineptitude, to the people dicking around in Photoshop drawing pretty pictures and calling it "design" when they don't know enough about HTML, CSS or accessibility to be designing jack **** for anybody -- I truly pity anyone starting out and trying to navigate the minefield of dog piles. Hopefully my response to your latest post: https://forums.digitalpoint.com/threads/complete-nav.2757428 Will be more to your liking. You're asking about methodology, I explained it - clarifying what others said and pointing out a whole host of things I'm willing to bet you didn't know. Oh, and if I say ignorant, don't assume that's an insult -- it means you didn't know. The people PROMOTING ignorance, they're the ones I'm mostly taking to task and trying to warn people away from. But of course, JOE FORBID anyone have a negative response to rubbish, disinformation, and scam-artist BS. That reeks of the type of politically correct asshattery that I find more offensive than the types of jokes that make truckers go "Hey, watch your mouth there are mechanics in here!" Though in a lot of cases people just use how I say things as an EXCUSE for the fact they don't want to hear that they've spent years having teachers, tutorials and books blow smoke up their ass - or have been duped into using some idiotic tool that pretty much means they have to unlearn the manure they've been packed full of.
True -- and a good point -- but I wish to hell at the time someone had TOLD ME I was writing crap at the time; instead just as today you have endless tools, tutorials and halfwits CLAIMING to be experts actively encouraging people to just sleaze it out any old way and ignore standards, accessibility and a host of other things that should be front-and-center when building a site. Worse, right now, people are making new tools JUST to result in rubbish code -- and that's mostly where I take offense and can get passionate about things. Designing in Photoshop, using WYSIWYGS, relying on bloated frameworks that result in disastrously bad sites; not only do these make rubbish code, PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY DEFENDING THE PRACTICE. Putting them IMHO somewhere between Peter Griffen and Creationists on the mental retardation scale.
If I know more now than I knew then, it's because I listened and learned instead of getting whiny about someone hurting my feelings. One way to determine who to listen to is to simply try the solution they give you. How much respect do you give their opinions? Go through the threads they posted solutions on. Do they work? Do they teach as they go? Maybe you should listen to what they have to say instead of feeling put upon if they're not all sweetness and light. @deathshadow has his bone of contention with frameworks and their ilk, while mine focuses on failure to acknowledge what help you're getting and trying to improve. People that respond saying that something won't work without showing exactly how they used the suggestion, or won't show a screen shot showing exactly how it's not right or, worst of all, complaining that I was mean for not taking the word of a self-confessed newbie that he knows better than I do about the solution; these people give me tired-head. They say to me, "I'm a twit not worth helping." One other thing; when I wrote grow a pair, I was referring to getting criticism; be a man about it. You might work on reading comprehension while they mature.
Which is sadly ALL too common these days, and seems to be growing WORSE with every passing day. There's NOTHING wrong with calling something crap; there's NOTHING wrong with disagreeing with it being called crap! BUT FOR **** SAKE BE WILLING TO BACK IT UP!!! Far too often you get the "oh just Google it" response that they dont' seem to realize EVERY result contradicts their statements; too often you get the "I know what I'm talking about" with NOTHING to back it up you link to a half dozen or more sources contesting their statements. The ridiculous "I'm a beginner" excuse immediately followed or preceded by claims of knowing what they are doing or worse, creating something CLAIMING they know what they are doing! You see this **** all the blasted time now with people making websites for selling designs and sites to people, where it's clear they have no business building websites for others. Leaving one with very little choice other than to say "Alright, I think you're and idiot, and what you say SHOWS me you're an idiot"; It's like the faithtards and tin-foil hat wearing homeopathic anti-gmo anti-vaxx whackjobs who respond with "I don't care about facts, I know how I FEEL about it!" -- yeah, no. Of course, there's also the subtle distinction of attacking the work, the methodology and the tools, and attacking the person using them -- one commonly lost on the average Internet user. Even the simplicities of sardonism, similes and complete thoughts being an alien language to what is increasingly being derided as "The Twitter Generation". If literacy is at an all time high, comprehension has to be at an all-time low. I swear half the time I deal with new posters on websites it's like talking to the bastard child of Oswald Bates! and Yoda. Hell, half the time I use a simile these days you get some mouth-breathing halfwit saying "What's that got to do with anything, why are you dragging it off topic?", and when you call it a simile, they think you mistyped "smilie". Though I'll freely admit I've gotten significantly more hostile and less tolerant the past couple year, my internal censor is completely shut down as when I was being polite people STILL reacted as if I took a dump in their corn flakes... (admittedly given my habit of debunking, dissecting and generally pissing on certain things from orbit... well...) at which point if I'm going to be damned for it, I might as well take off the kid gloves and do what I'm being accused of. The real laugh being what I post here is ridiculously watered down from what I'm actually thinking. You're STILL getting the light, friendly upbeat version of what I'm thinking. I think a lot of it comes from this current politically correct nonsense of "don't upset anybody" -- which seems to be it's ok for THEM to get upset but not for YOU to get upset; two way street jackasses. Treads into the same thing as certain groups who've spent hundreds if not thousands of years victimizing others now trying to play the victim card; you'll excuse me if I don't have a lot of sympathy for that. As the joke goes, if there's a war on Religion, it's because Religion started it. Getting worse since now not only is it unacceptable to upset anyone, it's unacceptable for anyone to GET upset. To blazes with that and to blazes with that type of thinking. "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw. ... and it REALLY does make me wonder how any of the people who take offense to the things I say last more than five minutes in the business world without being curled up in a ball in the corner rocking back and forth crying like a 7 year old who just found out there is no Santa... but what can one expect when we're breeding hordes of manchilds having life paid for by mommy and daddy until they're in their 30's.
You can click on the Ignore link in any account to stop seeing posts from the members you don't care hearing from. Their content will remain hidden for you in the posts. Or you can ignore members via "People You Ignore" https://www.digitalpoint.com/account/ignored in your own account. I used to get pissed off at some members here too, but then I said to hell with you and just started ignoring a bunch of them. They can spew their sh*t all day long, who cares. Also, keep in mind that trolls come in all shapes and sizes. Just because someone is "helpful", "smart-alecky", "insightful" or "experienced" doesn't mean s/he isn't one.
The answer to your question is VERY simple: If you don't get in people's faces, THEY WILL NOT REMEMBER WHAT YOU TOLD THEM. So, get off your high horse, and ask those questions. And be THANKFUL people are taking the TIME to GET IN YOUR FACE. Those answers you will ALWAYS remember, while answers from anyone pussy-footing around will be long forgotten shortly after you read them.
@mmerlin, interesting bump of a year and a half old thread... Ah, memories. Though the part about remembering reminds me of something Patton once said. "When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to a bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity; but it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag! As to the types of comments I make, sometimes I just... by God... get carried away with my own eloquence." Sadly, this thread is even more topical in today's world, as the special snowflakes seem to have increased to a blizzard in scale and scope... and the sleazy scam artists are reaping the rewards of it. Some slop out buggy broken websites for a fast buck on vague promises, others run for national office.