'You fascists! What are you doing to us?' Ukrainians despair as Kiev shells East

'You fascists! What are you doing to us?' Ukrainians despair as Kiev shells East

 

Everything that is happening in the Ukraine is the result of Putin's arrogance and Hitler-like attitude.

 

You got everything upside down.
If what you say was right, the whole of Ukraine would be part of Russia. .... starting 02/22/2014.

What is wrong with you?

 

You're wrong. Putin would never openly take over the Ukraine because he knows the world would never stand for it. Even now, there are sanctions and the threat of more sanctions. Initially, Putin claimed that the military presence in Kiev was local self defense forces; after evidence to the contrary surfaced, he stated they were indeed Russian military, but they were only there to "protect Russian speaking citizens".

From day one, Putin instigated the unification of the Ukraine and Russia and before anyone in the Ukraine even expressed this sentiment, he had Russian troops right on the border. When the vote to unite Kiev with Russia was under way, Russian military roamed the streets of Kiev with guns and threats of violence were made against anyone who thought of voting against it. These are the exact same strong arm tactics Hitler used during WWII.

You can live in denial if you want, but the fact is, Russia has a major financial interest in the Ukraine and everything that has happened there recently is Putin's doing...

 

Your post is one sided and lacks objectivity.

US and EU have only one interest in Ukraine and that is selfish interest. "What and how they can benefit from Ukraine?" That is what they are asking themselves.
Russia has subsidized Ukraine for the last 20 years with over $225 billion dollars.
It is Russia that has always supported Ukraine, and even now the Russian government is looking for dialog with Kiev, but Washington does not allow Kiev to talk to Moscow.
Obama wants conflict, and that is armed one, between the Slavic people of Ukraine. Obama and the russofobs enjoy it when they hear a news of mass killings of Russian speaking people.

US wants to built another NATO base on the other side of the fence with Russia.
US wants to make everybody anti-Russian. Look at their policies all over the world.
US wants another vassal.
EU want just another place to sell their goods.

Neither US or EU have at heart the best for Ukraine. If they had they wouldn't have incited violence against the Russian speaking population.
You see how congressmen are pushing to bring arms to Ukraine? You don't want to see that, or you just ignore it.

Morally Putin is Right, Obama and the rest of his western supporters wrong.

The west cannot be trusted. They started many conflicts for no good reason.
Putin knows that very well and will react accordingly.

I am very sorry that Obama has become such a disappointment for most people around the world. I liked it when I read that he voted against the war on Iraq, hoping we would have a president of peace.
He turned out a weak president, with weak morals.

 

Funny, I didn't see the US or EU annexing parts of the Ukraine...

 

I don't have a lot of knowledge about this part of the world, but I don't understand how the west can support one group who took over the government by force; then ignore the vote in Crimea because it is illegal.

 

"... Funny, I didn't see the US or EU annexing parts of the Ukraine... "

It is funny you don't want to know the history of Crimea.
You can only congratulate Russia for not taking it back after the break up of the SU. Russia tolerated the illegal transfer of Crimea to Ukraine for quite a long time, and when it became obvious Obama wants to make it a NATO sea port, Russia had no choice, but to accept the reunification referendum by the local population.

 

When a president uses deadly police force to stop protests over an economic collapse he caused when he embezzled billions of dollars from his own government, then flees his country, I'd say his claim to the title "president" is void. That means when the Ukraine appointed an interim government, it was both legitimate and legal. However, when a group of Russian citizens living in the Kiev region decide to leave the Ukraine (an act clearly in violation of the Ukrainian constitution) and join Russia at Putin's prodding, how can you expect anyone to view it as anything but illegal?

 

Yeah, yeah, I know the Ukraine was conquered by Russia under the Tsarist regime and this somehow gives Russia claim to the Ukraine; the Ukraine was also controlled by Austria, Poland and several other political entity over the years. Since Poland's claim on the Ukraine predates Russia's (1569 to be exact), if Poland wanted to annex the Ukraine, would that be okay too?

By the way, it was the Soviet Union, in 1954 that declared the Crimean region part of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Before the Crimean Khanate was conquered by the Russian Empire under Catherine the Great in 1783, Crimea was a sovereign state...

 

"... Yeah, yeah, I know the Ukraine was conquered by Russia under the Tsarist regime .... "

Crimea was given to Ukraine by Khrushchev. There was no referendum whatsoever, the will of the people was disregarded. SU was a dictatorship and as such the transfer was illegal.

If you start complaining about the Tsarists times, who took what more than a hundred years ago, than the legality of US has to be questioned as well.

Novorussia / SE Ukraine was transferred to Ukraine in 1920, who knows why, but the local Russian speaking population were not asked again if they like it to be part of the Ukraine region.

Washington and Kiev will never win militarily SE Ukraine. You can mark my words.
Best case scenario for Kiev is to give SE Ukraine what they want and move on.

If not, we'll see in about a year was I right or not.


05/30/2014

 

The will of which people, the Russians, or the native Crimeans? You seem to forget Crimea was once its own sovereign state until it was conquered by Russia and because of this, there was a lot of resentment against Russia in Crimea. And from what I can tell, there were no objections over Crimea being part of Ukraine when this happened. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, when the Soviet Union declared Crimea part of the Ukraine, there was jubilation throughout Crimea.

In whose opinion? The only ones in Crimea who even want this are the Russian speaking residents. Anyone in Crimea who has openly disagreed with this unification has gone missing. Currently, Crimea is about 58% Russian, with about 25% Ukranian and the rest are mainly Crimean Tatars. The only ones who should have a real say so are the native Tatars and I can guarantee with their anti-Russian sentiments, there is no way they'd agree with unification with Russia.

You want to know what this is all about? I'll tell you.

1. Russia has designs on Ukraine's natural gas pipeline;
2. Russia considers Ukraine within its sphere of influence and does not want Ukraine moving more toward the West;
3. Ukraine has a large Russian speaking population;
4. Russia is paranoid about the possibility of more revolutions; and
5. Russia still considers the Ukraine inextricably linked to itself and even uses the diminutive designation, "Little Russia" (a name coined by the Tsars) in reference to the Ukraine.

 

This must be the most stupid post ever, it is funny when you cannot even repeat what you suppose to be heard on CNN or Fox news. Not even U.S. State Department and American TV claim such nonsense as you have posted. I suggest next time, you tape the official news and listen to it a couple of times so hopefully you can repeat it correctly.

 

I can respect that you disagree with me, but calling my post "stupid" says a lot about you as an individual.

 

I don´t disagree with you, what you have posted makes no sense and there is no where such claims which make me believe that you have not comprehended what you have heard on CNN or Fox news.

 

"Jameyson MacDonald"

What I see from your posts is: a person bent on being right. Facts, rules, laws don't matter.

 

I see a lot of ranting and raving that I'm wrong with no attempt to cite a single source to prove it. You've called me "stupid" and said I don't have enough sense to understand what I read. You are obviously speaking from a biased standpoint and personally agree with Russia annexing the Crimean region, making an objective fact-based discussion with you impossible. I have no personal interest in this situation and I honestly don't care how it turns out, but I'm far from stupid, I do keep aware of what happens in the world and I believe in calling things how I see them. If you want to remain ignorant that is certainly your right, but do us all a favor and shut up about it because you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. I'm through discussing this with you. Feel free to make additional posts here, but don't expect me to read them because I'm bored with this subject already...

You wanted sources, here they are:

• Putin admits to sending troops to Crimea: http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-admits-troops-crimea-2014-4, http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/01/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA1Q1E820140301, http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2023393433_apxrussiaputin.html
• Russia's designs for the Ukrainian gas pipeline: http://www.businessinsider.com/r-ru...rsea-gas-pipeline-to-crimea-newspaper-2014-01, http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/01/ukraine-crisis-gazprom-ppeline-idUSL5N0MT0V120140401, http://www.theguardian.com/environm...e-crisis-great-power-oil-gas-rivals-pipelines
• Opening fire on protesters: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579479032583488114, http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-yanukovych-ordered-snipers-shoot-153616333.html,
  
• Embezzling from and bankrupting the Ukraine: http://www.interpretermag.com/yakunovychs-bankruptcy-why-ukraine-is-waiting-for-a-change-of-power/, http://www.interpretermag.com/how-yanukovych-pillaged-ukraine/
  
• Historical facts about Crimea and the Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Crimea, http://russianhistoryblog.org/2014/03/history-in-the-crimea-ukraine-today/, http://www.historyextra.com/feature/complex-crimea-history-relationship-Russia-Ukraine-Crimea (which incidentally also discusses Tatar resentments against Russia)

 

LOL. Thank you for posting so many links to prove my point. Not only you don´t understand what you read, you also lack general knowledge. Kiev is the capital of Ukraine and no where near Crimea. I will post a map of Ukraine so it might help you better to understand.

 

Actually, this is hilarious! I did say "Kiev" a few times, but meant to say Crimea. Sh*t happens and if you're even the least bit honest, you'd admit we've all done this a time or two. It really doesn't change anything, as far as the argument is concerned...

 

According to you what happened in KIEV is good and legitimate (Pictures below)




And what happened in CRIMEA is bad and illegitimate. (Picture below)




Is this part of mentality of Sh*t happens and the 1984 type of thinking that is so strong in the USA right now and claims: "Good is bad and bad is good"?