Another lie. That's your problem KLB, you continue to lie. One after another after another. Apparently you have no control over yourself at this point, as you've dug yourself into a hole you cannot get out of. http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=1867805&postcount=25 Be a man and stand behind what you write. The P&R forum is filled with many view points and many people that "attack" each other on views. I certainly can take it and do take a lot. You have, as usual, a one-sided view. Given that you've sold your integrity, it doesn't surprise me. What I'm currently enjoying the most, is your blatant hypocrisy and double standards. Kerry is/was a traitor and I've certainly presented much evidence of why I've come to such a conclusion. However, in typical fashion, you've lied once again by making reference that I've associated all Democrats as traitors. Just a blatant lie. In fact, if you had actually paid attention in the thread, Edz tried to paint Clinton as a traitor and I defended him against such. You're blind hatred has driven you to constant lying and a complete loss of any integrity what-so-ever. Pot calling the kettle black again. You offer that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a religious wacko, thereby forcing your views on others, lest they be a "wacko" in your book. Then lie after being reminded of such, over and over again, but say you just trying to drive home a point. Your bigotry has prevented you from accepting others views and resorting to continuous lying to protect your own bigotry. You have done nothing but lie, insult and make baseless claims about me while attempting to sweep everything under the carpet of political correctness. You exemplify hypocrisy at it's finest. Another lie. I have made no such claim nor has anything even remotely been discussed during this xx page childish tirade you've performed. What is it, that drives you to excessive lying? Yet you've chosen to present yourself in a childish manner, to lie, sell your integrity, to deny and sweep it under the carpet of political correctness, even though you know my issue was valid? Yes, that's awful accepting of you, isn't it? It really proves how open you are to others views. Incorrect. You have exhausted yourself through deceit, lies and political correctness for the past ten or so pages with insults. It's not a personal attack, it's fact. You continue to provide, in every post, the basis for such. Yes, attack back. Including you. Any neutral observer would see a two way street here. But you are so blinded by your own hypocrisy, you can't see it yourself. My skin is tough. Unlike you, I don't go running to moderators when I can't win a heated debate. You've attacked me throughout this thread and I've offered you the same hostility you've offered me. You lied about me, numerous times, and I called you on it. Instead of being a man and admitting such and/or retracting it, you ran like a coward to report my post for calling you on it. As if *you* are immune. Yes, again with your personal insults. That's basically all you've offered. Yet like the child in the playground who goes around kicking everyone in the shins and gets slapped in the face one day, runs home to tell mom that others are picking on him. You have no integrity. You sold it when you deliberately and continually present lies about what I've said. Obviously your integrity had a price and you decided to sell it. What a shame. Give your own continuous personal attacks, I'd say I have just as much as you. Unless you truly believe you are not doing the very same things you accuse me of. Hypocrisy. You have and continue to. And I will continue to point them out for your denial. So you admit it was premeditated and deliberate? You are not special. I don't consider anyone that would continue to lie as special. You are just another one where I can say "facts don't matter." Blind hatred does not excuse lying. You could have taken a much better strategy here, since you've admitted it was a premeditated attack. You could have maintained your integrity. You could have chosen not to lie. But you didn't. So, here we are again. Entertain me with another round of lies and hypocrisy, won't you?
The only one who lies in this forum is you. You are so full of hatred and contempt for any one who doesn't share your right wing Christian fundamentalist views about politics and religion that you break out and make things up about them, call them liars and do what ever you think will make you look bigger. Yes I'm seeing you call others liars in other threads. Normally the person who screams the loudest and the most often about others being a liar is the biggest liar of them all and if we dig through all of the posts in this forum, we will see who does it the most (hint your name is on the short list). You are nothing but a school yard bully. Don't like the term wacko, fine I'll give you a better term "intolerant right wing religious zealot who has no problems stomping on the Constitution." This is more accurate but harder to write. Yes I believe that anyone who is making a big stink about a Congressman wanting hold a Koran during his swearing in is making a big deal out of nothing and probably needs to have their head examined. At the very least they need to be forced to memorize the U.S. Constitution (in particularly Article VI, the First Amendment and Ninth Amendment). Our country is a melting pot of nationalities and cultures. Our country was also founded on the premise of religious freedom and tolerance. If you can not be tolerant enough to allow someone to take their oath of office holding whatever document they want (it could be a comic book as far as I care) then you need to go move to some fascist religious state. Religious freedom is exactly that religious freedom. It is the right to worship whatever religion or god one so desires. Freedom of expression is exactly that freedom of expression. Nothing more exemplifies these two rights than a Congressman getting to hold whatever book he so pleases during his swearing in. You try to paint Kerry as a traitor and then paint Democrats as what -- "John kerryesque"? Sounds like trying to paint Democrats as traitors to me and probably any other reasonable minded individual. No I offered that anyone who is trying to make a big deal of a congressman wanting to hold a Koran while taking an oath as a religious wacko. I don't subscribe to Islam or Judaism but have and/or do have many friends who are Muslims or Jews and had no problems with them or discussing religion with them. Most of my best friends have or had very different political and religious beliefs from me and we discussed these different beliefs regularly. What I have a problem with are people who are so intolerant that they will do everything in their power to shout down, insult, ridicule or otherwise harass those they do not like or disagree with until they go away. I've seen what happens when a Muslim tries to come into this forum and try to defend their religion it is ugly and shameful (on the part of those attacking Islam). I am probably the most open minded person you will ever meet (unless you go to a Democratic convention in San Fransisco). But I have my limits and watching this forum for some time now has pushed me to the ends of my limits. I have absolutely no tolerance for those who are unwilling to show any tolerance for others and instead take and/or make every opportunity possible to attack the religion of others. None of us will really know what the true religion is until we die and get to learn what the truth is (unless the atheists are right in which case there is nothing after death). We do not have a moral right to judge or attack the religion of another. We can criticize the actions of others, but we can not judge their religion less we be judged. If your or my religion is truly superior to someone else's religion the best way to prove this is by our actions and how we conduct our lives. If we conduct our lives in a way that is noble, honorable and in a way that others will want to emulate, others will follow us and learn about our religion. If, however, we spend our lives attacking others and their beliefs, the way you do here (and I assume elsewhere), we will harden the opinions of others against our religion and simply help to breed more generations of religious strife. If you want to live in a world that is free from the threats of terrorism and religious strife then you must stop attacking the religion of others and instead try to build bridges of understanding between different peoples. We don't make/negotiate peace with our friends because we don't need to. We make/negotiate peace with our advisories. If we can make someone our friend then we don't need to negotiate peace with that person. This is what Pope John Paul understood when he tried to start building bridges between Christians, Muslims and Jews and tried to begin mending fences between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches. In spite of all of the wars between the religions, the various religions have lived together at peace more than at conflict. We can live together at peace today if we just stop feeding the intolerance that give the extremists all of their power. The problem is people "preaching" extreme views like you do does not help us bridge cultures. In the long run you extreme intolerance of Islam and your constant bashing of Islam does nothing but help breed more resentment and animosity. In your effort to try and protect yourself against Islam you are in fact making yourself less safe because you help breed hatred and animosity against Christianity and America. You are in short helping to prove the extremists claims that America wants to wipe out Islam to be correct, this in turn will help to drive more people towards the extremists and turn them against America. In the long scheme of life is a Congressman taking an oath while holding a Koran a big deal? No it is not, it would be forgotten by everyone very quickly. But people like you trying to make a big deal of it only helps to show America as intolerant and helps prove to the Muslim world that we are intolerant of them. This does not help us make this world more peaceful and thus safer.
Incorrect. I've pointed out your lies time and again. Apparently you don't even care that you do. Doesn't really matter what you called it, it was your own bigotry. "Agree with me, or you are [insert whatever klb feels like at the moment]" Once again, showing your hypocrisy at calling others names. I agree with this. However, one does not have to tolerate a book that calls for his own death. That is not intolerance. The intolerance is the book calling for another's death in the first place. Being aware is not intolerant. Kerry is a traitor. I've documented such. I saw you reading the thread and you know very well I did not say what you accused me of in a previous post. No doubt you were looking to be sure or to find something. There are two separate issues here. Kerry is a traitor. I've covered this issue and IMO, he fits this title. However, you claimed I said all Democrats were. This is not true. You should at least acknowledge this, that it was a mistake or an oversight. Anyone that doesn't share your view. Bigotry. Unwillingness to acknowledge other's views. You are the prime example of what you continue to try and paint me as. Projectionism at it's finest. What I offered was, the book the Congressman was taking an oath of affirmation on, contained verses that instruct muslims to kill the very people he is affirming to serve and protect. But in your quest for all things "politically correct," you've lied about it, denied they even existed then moved on that they were taken out of context, but could provide no other alternative context, to finally admitting they were there, yet you took issue with me for being aware they were there. It sounds like you have a problem with yourself because this is exactly what you are doing. It's amazing you can live with yourself, as intolerant and full of bigotry as you've displayed. It's apparent you have reached your limits, as you've proved you are willing to sell your integrity and lie for something you do yourself. You could have done better and not sold out. In the places I've noted in posts above, where you have willfully lied about me, you could go back and correct those things. I won't berate you for doing such. I would be a first step to restoring some honesty and integrity. Being aware is not attacking. Sweeping unpleasant realities under the carpet of political correctness is analogous to sticking your head in the sand. You've even admitted that the issue I took is true. Though you initially lied and said it was not, after repeated discourse, finally admitted it was true. Being aware that there are verses in the quran that call for the deaths of infidels is not judging. It's being aware. Being aware that there are verses that tell muslims not to befriend Christians and Jews is not judgement, it is being aware of what is there. You seem to want to close off anything negative, but it's those very things are driving the current problems of islamists around the world committing crimes against humanity. How can one acknowledge such, without being aware of what their religious book contains, that drives such? You act as if ignoring it, the problem will go away. It will not. And it's foolish thinking to believe it will. Being aware is not judging. You cannot just sweep everything negative under the carpet and pretend it's not there. I don't disagree with this. In fact, it may be one of the best things you've said and I agree with it. However, being aware is not judgement. It is not politically incorrect to be aware. Again, it's painfully clear you want to sweep anything negative under the carpet of "political correctness," but that serves no purpose what-so-ever. We should be aware. We should be aware when school districts ban the book because of referneces to Jews as apes and pigs. We should be aware of the beheadings and murders in the name of islam taking place on a regular basis. We should be aware of the signs carried at protests. We should be aware the ties to terrorist groups and convictions of CAIR members for such. We should be aware of what is taught in mosques in Europe. We should be aware of the reality in Indonesia. We should be aware of what is being taught in mosques in the Czech Republic. We most definitely should be aware of what is being taught in mosques in the US. We should not forget Beslan. We should be aware of the plots uncovered here in the US. We should be aware of the fake charities setup and those who crop up in the media that were associated with such. We should be aware of what is going on in the world around us. We should be aware of so many different things going on in the UK. We should be aware of what's going on in Germany. We should be aware of the reaction around the world when fake stories about flushing a book down the toilet get out. We should be aware of the riots in France. We should be aware of riots around the world over cartoons. We should be aware of the riots, killings, torchings, murders when the Pope quotes something that turns out to still be true today. Yes, we should be aware. Now is most certainly NOT the time to bury your head and sweep the minor things under the carpet, when there are so many major issues taking place. Being aware is not attacking. That's not to say that neither myself has been attacked for my beliefs (as I have been by you in this thread) or that I have not attacked others in the past. But in this thread, being aware is not attacking. I can appreciate your good will. I won't pretend I don't see what your view is here, but I believe it is naive in this day and time. We cannot bury our heads in the sand and pretend all these things are not happening. And we most certainly cannot naively pretend that just being nice to extremists (who are not necessarily a tiny majority, as some would argue) will simply be nice back. They are not "my" extreme views to preach. I quoted the quran. Are you suggesting the quran is extreme? I would not disagree with that. Again, you try to pin the message on the messenger. This is not factual. Absent verses that call for the deaths of the very people the Congressman was affirming on, to serve and protect, you would have a good point. But we cannot pretend those verses are not there with very deliberate instruction. That does not mean all muslims follow those scriptures. But they are there and many do and many are. It is the verses that deserve the outrage, not those who are aware of them. Being intolerant of verses that call for your death is not a bad thing. I do not have to tolerate someone's religious right to kill me, because their book says so. That's not intolerance, that's common sense. It is not politically incorrect to be aware.
I'm not sure this has been mentioned -- I don't have the time to wade through all the posts -- but the Muslim congressman has said that he will not be taking his oath of office by placing his hand on the Koran: http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200612/POL20061201a.html
Great article. It just proves that those who were trying to make a big stink about the Koran in the first place really don't know what the hell they are talking about as no book is used during the swearing in. A book is only used for those who decided to have a MOCK photo opt. Second it proves just how ignorant some people are about our Constitution including Article VI's statement of NO religious test and the establishment clause of the First Amendment. I don't care how offended people like GTech are about the issue, IF a Congressman is allowed to use the Bible or Torah after their swearing in for their photo opt, then the Constitution allows them to use a Koran. Personally this year I think all Congressmen/women should have the moral fiber and respect for the Constitution to do their photo opt without any book because so many would deny one Congressman his Constitutional rights. Intolerant hateful people like GTech have forced a Congressman to forgo his Constitutional right of freedom of expression and freedom of religion just so as to not offend their delicate sensibilities. If the other Congressmen/women forgo the holding of their preferred religious book they will be showing that they recognize the importance of Article VI and the First Amendment and how important it is that the rights afforded in the Constitution be protected for ALL PEOPLE not just those who share the same religious beliefs. I also think that those like GTech who would willingly deny their fellow American their Constitutional rights should be stripped of their citizenship and kicked out of the country. Defending the Constitution and the rights it affords ALL Americans is a fundamental responsibility of all Americans. Denying one individual their Constitutional rights is quite simply anti-American. Contrary to what people like GTech and the Christian fundamentalists would like us to believe, our country was not founded as an inherently Christian country AND NO WHERE in our Deceleration of Independence or Constitution does it declare Christianity to be our founding principles. Furthermore as was common in the day, many of our founding fathers were Masons and when a Mason swears an oath, on the table in front of them is a copy of the Bible, the Koran and the Torah. Our founding fathers were not blind to what they meant when they wrote Article VI and the 1st Amendment. They new exactly what it meant and they knew that the right to freedom of religion included Islam because many of them probably took their Masonic oaths with a Koran in front of them just like Masons do today. Protecting the rights afforded in the Constitution is far more important than the nature of a particular religion one believes in (this is not to say I think GTech is right about Islam, because I don't). We do not have a right not to be offended by the religion of others. If we only protect the rights of those who do not offend us, we will slowly erode away our own rights.
Ferret you finally posted some home photos and of yourself, but I think this was the wrong thread for introductions..
Excellent, now that we have that settled! And to think, KLB is trying to act as if he knew all along and take some high moral ground by cloaking his lies and deceit around the Constitution as a shield. Contrary to what islamic apologists and dhimmis like KLB who would have "us" believe (to write in your solicitation of support style), it is not politically incorrect to be aware, even though you've demonstrated you are willing to not only lie, but deceive others to prevent being aware. When one offers words to the affect that "if you don't believe what I do, you are a religious wacko" or any other made up term, you demonstrate bigotry. That is exactly what you've done here KLB. You attempt to disguise your bigotry by taking a high moral ground and cloaking it with calls of the Constitution. By your own standard, you've demonstrated yourself as a bigot and that the Constitution you wrap yourself in only applies to some, but not all. I doubt you have the intelligence to see that. You're too busy trying to convince the world that someone's right to kill another should be tolerance. You've demonstrated your own intolerance of other's views and resorted to outright lying and wrapping yourself in the Constitution based upon deceit and lies. Anyone that disagrees with you, is a religious wacko. Not that many people followed the thread, but there is no doubt now that people will be informed, despite your best efforts to lie, deceive, deny the existence of, then admit the existence of, then inform that we should be tolerant of another's right to kill us, if it's part of their religious book. Be aware. It's not politically incorrect to be aware: 005.051 - 52 O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. 009.005 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. 009.029 - 30 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. 009.033 He it is Who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse. 008.012 - 14 SHAKIR: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
I bet those two cents of ad revenue are really making your day, too. After the flyin' lyin' Immams incident and the "I'm going to blow up a mall" incident (still waiting on the press conf condemning the guy) I'm quite confident that swearing on a Koran is the sure way to not get re-elected. The only way Muslims will get elected is if they show 100% allegience to the ideologies the US was founded on. Because the Koran contradicts those ideologies and Muslims are doing a fine job demonstrating that fact, swearing on a Koran would go over as well as a Mexican American swearing with one hand on the Mexican flag. If Ellison starts promoting Islamic based legislation that will be the end of Muslims in congress. I don't think Americans are eager to start our transition to Middle Eastern style government.
The biggest mistake people are making is to assume that because one is Muslim one doesn't embrace America and what it stands for. I won't use the word ideology, because this word creates a negative contagion about what America is. Ideology infers some kind of intolerant religious fanaticism. The problem with this discussion is that it is painfully apparent that many people here have not lived and worked with Muslims and gotten to know them on a personal level. For the most part they are a peace loving people who have many of the same hopes and aspirations as any other American. Those that immigrated here from the Middle East or Africa tend to treasure what it means to be an American more than those of us who were born here. They have frequently lived in repressive countries where one could be executed for simply speaking out against one's government and they thus value and savor the rights and freedoms of America so much more than us. Many if not most American Muslims as upset if not more upset about 9/11 because not only had their country (America) been attacked, but it was an affront to their religion and religious beliefs because the Islam they practice and teach does not allow for such violent acts. There are extremists in every religion that will find evil ways to pervert what ever religion it is that they embrace to justify their evil and violent acts. There are extremists Jews who move to Israel and try to create settlements on Palestinian lands with the sole hope of sparking violence with and killing Palestinians. There are extremists who pervert Christianity and the Bible to justify violence against Jews, Muslims, gays, blacks or whatever group it is they hate. And yes their are extremists who pervert Islam and the Koran to justify their attacking America with airliners. We can not judge any religion by the extremist minority that tries to pervert a religion. Rather we must look at what the majority of any given religion believe and how they lead their lives. Are their violent passages in the Koran? Sure there are, but there is also an extreme amount of violence in the Bible. Just read Deuteronomy, that book is more violent then the most violent TV programs with it saying that God said to kill this group or to kill that group. Heck throughout the entire Old Testament God is killing people or instructing his followers to kill certain people routinely. Even Paul's letters in Corinthians aren't always the most tolerant or peaceful writings in the world. Yet at the same time Bible can go on at great length about peace, tolerance and brotherly love. The Bible is full of contradictions between telling followers to commit violent acts and being peaceful. Yet any reasonable Christian knows they must take the Bible as a whole and not commit violence against others based on a handful of phrases that say to smite, kill or leave none breathing. Christians must put the violent phrases and writings in the Bible into the greater context of what the Bible is teaching overall and must act based on the greater teachings, not the individual passages. The Koran is no different. Just like the Bible, the Koran is full of contradictions and stories that would seem to say the opposite things. In order to truly follow the teachings of the Koran, one must study the whole thing and put individual phrases into context of the writings as a whole to reconcile contradictory passages. Can extremists "cherry pick" specific passages from the Koran (as GTech has done) to justify committing violence on others? Sure they can, but this is no different than Christian extremists who "cherry pick" passages out of the Bible to justify committing violence against gays, Jews or anyone else they don't like or Jewish extremists "cherry picking" passages out of the Torah to justify murdering Palestinians. People like this are abominations upon their religions and do represent the truths of their religions. People should not fear a good Muslim, Christian or Jew, but rather embrace them and work with them to identify and isolate the extremist elements in each of these religions such that we can prevent the extremists from continuing to commit harm on others in the name of God. To make this statement is to fundamentally misunderstand our Constitution. As an elected official, he is Constitutionally prohibited from pushing forth religious based legislation whether it be Islamic or Christian. If anyone doubts this, just look at how many times conservative Christian politicians have tried to bring the Christian religion into our schools, courts or government only to be rebuffed by our courts. Some examples are the Ten Commandments carved into a stone block being placed in a court house, prayer in school, teaching creationism (in the guise of "intelligent design") in science classrooms. Christian conservatives may chafe at the establishment clause in the Constitution, but just as it prohibits them from enacting Christian based legislation, it will prohibit any one else from enacting Islamic or Jewish based legislation. Our founding fathers were extremely wise and far sighted when they wrote the Constitution and it is robust enough to withstand attacks on it by any religion. Oh and I do believe that if ANY politician should try to push ANY religious legislation through some level of our government the voters have an obligation to defend the Constitution and vote the perpetrator out of office at the first opportunity. --Edit-- Oh and one note my comments about Islam in this post are not coming from off the cuff so to speak. I've become annoyed enough with GTech's misrepresentation of Islam and the Koran that I am discussing this matter (and will be discussing this matter for some time to come) with scholars of the Koran (both Christian and Muslim) to learn as much as a I can. Hence I won't be commenting very frequently as this research takes time.
Whats ironic is that American citizens who are also Muslims are allowed to keep and bear arms, and that right shall not be infringed... according to the 2nd amendment of the constitution. What say you to this Gtech? Should American Muslims be allowed to keep and bear arms? You are either for the constitution or against it.
I'm not sure if any of that comment was directed at me, or if all of it was directed at KLB, but I did at least attempt to only quote from the New Testament.
I don't see why it matters which testament is quoted. Either it is the word of God or it isn't the word of God. If the Old Testament isn't relevant than the whole fundamentalist Christian arguments for things like Creationism are completely invalidated. Besides since some Christians believe that the Bible IS the exact word of God (King James version preferred) then they have to contend with the fact that the Old Testament does state that God instructed his followers to kill all of their enemies (as already quoted by me). The problem GTech really has with this is that the Old Testament creates a really uncomfortable hypocritical position of claiming the Koran calls for the destruction of non-believers while needing to explain away similar passages in the Old Testament. It is so much easier to try and claim that the Old Testament isn't relevant in this case than to address its violence. Furthermore since the Old Testament is based on the Torah I suspect that there are many similar violent passages in the Torah, thus any issues one has with the Koran and thus Islam should also be taken with the Torah and Judaism. Or does it only matter that a religion calls for the destruction of non-believers IF the religion just happens to one other than GTech's?
I specifically tried to quote from the new testament so that GTech couldn't claim that it was impossible to find anything that could be twisted around in the new testament, and claim I was being “deceptive†by quoting from the old testament. It was an attempt to preemptively cut off one of his apparently favored arguments.
This wasn't about the Bible. The Bible was introduced for moral equivalence as a way of avoiding addressing the verses that were at first lied about and said not to exist, then denied to have existed, then admitted to exist but taken out of context. The Bible is not the argument. I don't need to defend the Bible, it speaks for itself and unlike KLB, I've put it's selective passages in context. But at least KLB quit lying for a change and now admits they exist, but uses moral equivalence as some sort of shield. I never said such. Keep it honest and don't introduce excuses or rationale for the wording. Speaking of uncomfortable truths, I came across this yesterday. It's as if Michelle and Robert had been following this discussion here, as Robert addresses many of the failed attempts KLB has used here. It's almost frightening at what Robert addresses. Apparently the tired old arguments KLB offers and his attempts for moral equivalence are quite common.
The wording is somewhat different, I'll admit, but the meaning seems to be the same. And there is a difference between trying to make two things morally equivalent, and bringing up an example. Saying that Sadam is as bad as Hitler would be a case of trying to make a moral equivalence. Pointing out quotes from one book that can be twisted, to show that quotes from books can be twisted is known as an example.
Thanks for validating my point. It saved me from having to sort through and find it myself. As I said, people often do this with the Old Testament, but fail to provide examples of such (death to non-believers, do not take Christians and Jews as friends, etc) from the New Testament. As Robert Spencer notes, when seemingly talking directly to you?? and KLB in the short video clip posted above: Seeking moral equivalence through failed attempts at quoting another religions passages only serves to obfuscate and deny the original issue. Unto itself, it is an admission (albeit, reluctant and not intentional) that the scriptures do in fact exist instructing muslims to kill non-believers, but attempting to mask such with moral equivalence. Further, we can easily point out the context of those scriptures in use on a daily basis throughout the world, despite failed efforts to claim they are "out of context" when the offerer of such has no idea what context he believes they do belong in. The verses are the hatred. The verses are what drive the issues of islam today. Being aware of them is not the hatred, though that has seemingly been where the effort of convincing by klb and yourself have focused. A failed argument at that.
I’m sorry if I seemed to be ignoring another person’s post to me. I probably just missed it. I recently took a break from the forum over the weekend, as I am participating in the forum at least partially at the behest of my boss. When I came back, there were several posts, and I did a brief skim of what had been posted in order to attempt to bring myself back up to speed.