Muslim congressman and The Bible

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by d16man, Dec 4, 2006.

  1. #1
    So the new muslim congressman has said that he will not use the Bible to be sworn in. Instead he will put his left hand on the Koran. I have left to formulate my thoughts on this, what does everyone else think?
     
    d16man, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  2. Claudek

    Claudek Well-Known Member

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    #2
    Can't see anything wrong with it. Makes more sense for someone to swear an oath on the religious book that their faith is based on. Simple logic, though I guess there will be many who may not grasp that.
     
    Claudek, Dec 4, 2006 IP
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  3. MattKNC

    MattKNC Peon

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    #3
    I don't see anything wrong with it. Most politicians who "swear" on a Bible don't read it anyway. If they did, they would see that swearing an oath is wrong, while affirming something is fine.
     
    MattKNC, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  4. Josh Inno

    Josh Inno Guest

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    #4
    "Do not even swear by a single hair on your head"? Is that (or the verse I butchered in order to come up with it), and the surrounding text what you are reffering to MattKNC?
     
    Josh Inno, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  5. MattKNC

    MattKNC Peon

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    #5
    Very close! I had to pull it off of Bible Gateway to get the exact text. BTW, I am not condemning someone who does this, realizes their mistake, repents, and moves on. Here is the text:

    33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
     
    MattKNC, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  6. ServerUnion

    ServerUnion Peon

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    #6
    I was reading that congressman aren't actually sworn in with the bible at all, so this is a moot point. I wouldn't think "God" would like many of them touching the bible anyway!
     
    ServerUnion, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  7. Josh Inno

    Josh Inno Guest

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    #7
    Thank's for the exact text KNC.

    Oh, and Union, you bring up a good point. Isn't the Koran supposed to be protected from touching anything impure? <.< >.> I'll let the implication stand on it's own.
     
    Josh Inno, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  8. MattKNC

    MattKNC Peon

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    #8
    Actually, God would want then to touch it, open it up, and heed what He has to say. The Bible isn't to be worshipped; it isn't some icon.
     
    MattKNC, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  9. Hon Daddy Dad

    Hon Daddy Dad Peon

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    #9
    Good point Matt.
     
    Hon Daddy Dad, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  10. Josh Inno

    Josh Inno Guest

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    #10
    *nods* Aye. I was reffering to all of the protections you're supposed to be given to the Koran, something I don't personally see the point in. The Bible is a book. The content it conveys is what's important, not the paper or backing. I don't personally see how the Koran, or any other scripture is different.
     
    Josh Inno, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  11. bccruzer

    bccruzer Peon

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    #11
    If God said something and you wrote it down, directly from God, would you allow someone else to pee on it? No, its priceless, monetarily, morally....

    Thats the Way the Quran is
     
    bccruzer, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  12. Josh Inno

    Josh Inno Guest

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    #12
    Okay. I can see that, easily. But what about the millions of copies I made so that other people could see the message? Those copies aren't priceless, the message they contain is.
     
    Josh Inno, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  13. praetorian guardian

    praetorian guardian Guest

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    #13
    isnt church and state separated in your constitution anyway?
     
    praetorian guardian, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  14. Josh Inno

    Josh Inno Guest

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    #14
    A common misconception, even among some of those in the legal field.

    The US Federal government cannot pass a law that discourages or encourages the worship or following of any particular religion, however there are even exceptions to the enforcement of this rule. Any religion that requires it’s practitioners to perform illegal acts is discouraged as those acts are still punished. Examples include the growing, selling, or eating of Peyote, an illegal natural drug, as a part of certain Native American religious ceremonies. Also forbidden is any kind of ritual sacrifice of a human being. That is still murder.

    However the government specifically makes reference to religion in many places. There is a mural that includes the code of Hamaburabi, Mosus with the 10 commandments, and other religious figures of law above the seats of the chief justices of the United States. The purpose of this mural is not religious in nature, even though it contains religious themes. It is a historical representation of law givers.

    There is also the phrase “In God We Trust” on US currency.

    Many laws are also directly influenced by the religion of the lawmakers involved in crafting those bills, and what they believe (in part due to their religion) is right, proper, and moral.

    However what is NOT acceptable of law makers is to make a law on no basis other than a religion. Some of it still slips through, thus the need for the Supreme court’s ability to overturn those laws.
     
    Josh Inno, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  15. praetorian guardian

    praetorian guardian Guest

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    #15
    in a court of law are you allowed to use a koran instead of a bible?

    its the same god in Islam. Both the terms allah and god refer to Jehovah.
     
    praetorian guardian, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  16. CaptainB

    CaptainB Peon

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    #16
    So what would an atheist congressman put his hand on? Just hold it over empty space? or one of Richard Dawkins books?

    They should be sworn in on copy of the constitution that's what they're promising to 'support and defend' anyway.
     
    CaptainB, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  17. KalvinB

    KalvinB Peon

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    #17
    Even our founding fathers knew our rights came not from that piece of paper (written by man) but from a higher power. What men give, men can take away.

    The Bible makes it very clear that we are all equal in God's eyes. The Koran, not so much. The constitution is supposed to make us all equal as well.

    By swearing on the Bible they are basically confirming that our rights come from God and they are staking their soul on preserving them. We were also not supposed to divorce.
     
    KalvinB, Dec 4, 2006 IP
  18. MattKNC

    MattKNC Peon

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    #18
    Not hardly. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to God, but by me." John 14:6 As much as some people try to unite all "religions" together, you would have to toss just about everything said by Jesus Christ to come to that conclusion.
     
    MattKNC, Dec 5, 2006 IP
  19. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #19
    Here are some scriptures on which the Congressman affirmed:

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=1276336&postcount=59

    Most everyone I know would take exception to swearing into office based upon these.

    As for our country's history:

    Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking the favor_and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution ...

    Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska,_grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land ...

    Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...

    Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...

    California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ...

    Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe.

    Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy ...

    Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences ...

    Florida 1885, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty . establish this Constitution...

    Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...

    Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance ... establish this Constitution.

    Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of t! he State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings ...

    Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

    Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of government.

    Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings . establish this Constitution

    Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges . establish this Constitution.

    Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth of grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties...

    Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.

    Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine .. acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of_the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction.

    Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God or our civil and religious liberty...

    Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe ... in the course of His Providence, an opportunity .and devoutly imploring His direction ...

    Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom ... establish this Constitution

    Minnesota 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings.

    Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of
    Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.

    Missouri 1845, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness ... establish this Constitution ...

    Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty. establish this Constitution ...

    Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom .. establish this Constitution .

    Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom establish this Constitution...

    New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.

    New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors ..

    New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ..

    New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.

    North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those ..

    North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...

    Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common ...

    Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ... establish this ...

    Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences..

    Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance.

    Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the
    State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing.

    South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of he State of South Carolina, grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

    South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil! and religious liberties ... establish this Constitition.

    Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...

    Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.

    Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution .

    Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to ... enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man...

    Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator ... can be directed only by Reason ... and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other ...

    Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington, grateful! to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution ...

    West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia .. reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God...

    Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility ...

    Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution...

    Every State Constitution mentions God, not allah and most certainly not the quran.
     
    GTech, Dec 5, 2006 IP
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  20. britishguy

    britishguy Prominent Member

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    #20
    A great post GTech pleased to see the quran is not in the mix
     
    britishguy, Dec 5, 2006 IP