will you believe this?

jesus was born of virgin and every body knows that,about that question I would not believe it

 

Wow, how does someone get so goofed up?

No, the Scripture I quoted from, get this - was NEVER written in Greek. It is from the book of Isaiah, the Hebrew prophet.

It was the New Testament that was written in Greek not the old.

Phew!!! Where does one ever learn such nonsense to begin with?

 

Judaism reads the verse in Isaiah 7:14 as:

"Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman [ha-almah] shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu-el". [1]
Judaism affirms that [ha-almah] ("young woman") does not refer to a virgin and that had the Tanakh intended to refer to such, the specific Hebrew word for virgin [bethulah] would have been used.


Context of Isaiah 7:14 according to Judaism
Ahaz king of Jerusalem was besieged. Through Isaiah, God sends a message. Ahaz is reluctant to accept it, but is told he will get a sign. So Isaiah 7:10-17 states:

And the LORD spoke again unto Ahaz, saying:
11 יא שְׁאַל-לְךָ אוֹת, מֵעִם יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ; הַעְמֵק שְׁאָלָה, אוֹ הַגְבֵּהַּ לְמָעְלָה.
'Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God: ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.'
12 יב וַיֹּאמֶר, אָחָז: לֹא-אֶשְׁאַל וְלֹא-אֲנַסֶּה, אֶת-יְהוָה.
But Ahaz said: 'I will not ask, neither will I try the LORD.'
13 יג וַיֹּאמֶר, שִׁמְעוּ-נָא בֵּית דָּוִד: הַמְעַט מִכֶּם הַלְאוֹת אֲנָשִׁים, כִּי תַלְאוּ גַּם אֶת-אֱלֹהָי.
And he said: 'Hear ye now, O house of David: Is it a small thing for you to weary men, that ye will weary my God also?
יד לָכֵן יִתֵּן אֲדֹנָי הוּא, לָכֶם--אוֹת: הִנֵּה הָעַלְמָה, הָרָה וְיֹלֶדֶת בֵּן, וְקָרָאת שְׁמוֹ, עִמָּנוּ אֵל. 14
Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 טו חֶמְאָה וּדְבַשׁ, יֹאכֵל--לְדַעְתּוֹ מָאוֹס בָּרָע, וּבָחוֹר בַּטּוֹב.
Curd and honey shall he eat, when he knoweth to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
16 טז כִּי בְּטֶרֶם יֵדַע הַנַּעַר, מָאֹס בָּרָע--וּבָחֹר בַּטּוֹב: תֵּעָזֵב הָאֲדָמָה אֲשֶׁר אַתָּה קָץ, מִפְּנֵי שְׁנֵי מְלָכֶיהָ.
Yea, before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land whose two kings thou hast a horror of shall be forsaken.
יז יָבִיא יְהוָה עָלֶיךָ, וְעַל-עַמְּךָ וְעַל-בֵּית אָבִיךָ, יָמִים אֲשֶׁר לֹא-בָאוּ, לְמִיּוֹם סוּר-אֶפְרַיִם מֵעַל יְהוּדָה: אֵת, מֶלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר. {פ} 17
The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria'.[2]
Thus Jews believe that God will send a "sign" in the days of Ahaz who lived many centuries before Jesus. Moreover, they claim that there is no indication that Immanuel will be the Messiah, whatever the timing of his birth. The Jewish tradition has accordingly never considered Isaiah 7:14 as a messianic prophecy. Modern Jewish scholars argue that this is a Christian innovation, unwarranted by the text.


[edit] Hebrew translation

[edit] Meaning of “almah’”
The word almah is not used in Hebrew to refer to a virgin. The word for virgin is [betulah]. [3]

Jewish tradition states that the "young woman" was in fact Isaiah’s wife and the birth of the child is recorded later in Isaiah 8:3.

As an example of how '[almah] is used, in Proverbs 30:18-20:

18 There are three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not:
19 יט דֶּרֶךְ הַנֶּשֶׁר, בַּשָּׁמַיִם-- דֶּרֶךְ נָחָשׁ, עֲלֵי-צוּר;
דֶּרֶךְ-אֳנִיָּה בְלֶב-יָם-- וְדֶרֶךְ גֶּבֶר בְּעַלְמָה
The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock;
the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a young woman.
20 כ כֵּן, דֶּרֶךְ אִשָּׁה-- מְנָאָפֶת
אָכְלָה, וּמָחֲתָה פִיהָ; וְאָמְרָה, לֹא-פָעַלְתִּי אָוֶן
So is the way of an adulterous woman;
she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith: 'I have done no wickedness.'[4]
In this context it is argued, "the way of a man with a young woman," [alamah] does not appear to have the connotations of a virgin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel

 

Wow, how does someone get so goofed up?

No, the Scripture I quoted from, get this - was NEVER written in Greek as an origin. It is from the book of Isaiah, the Hebrew prophet.

It was the New Testament that was written in Greek origin not the Old.

Phew!!! Where does one ever learn such nonsense to begin with?

As for your contention that the Hebrew word "Betulah" alone means virgin not Almah. As I said before, in the ten few times the word Almah is used in the Bible: "There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin."

Whereas, to the contrary, "Betulah" in Joel 1:8 bespeaks the exact opposite of that which you contend: Joe 1:8 ¶ Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth. Here the word translated in English to be "virgin" is from the Hebrew "b@thuwlah" whi
ch you write as "betulah." Like a virgin lamenting for the "husband of her youth?"

However, once again it must be pointed out to you that the word Almah conveys NO SUCH CONFUSION. In the ten verses where almah appears, "the word clearly denotes a young woman who is not married but is of marriageable age. Although almah does not implicitly denote virginity, it is never used in the Scriptures to describe a "young, presently married woman." (as is Betulah) It is important to remember that in the Bible, a young Jewish woman of marriageable age (Almah) was presumed to be chaste.

Again, I repeat: there is no instance in the Bible where Almah designates a young woman who is not a virgin. Not true of Betulah.

 

I don't think atheists bash other religion...at least historically.
It's been around 2000 years now that people are killing other people for a religion excuse. When it's not protestans against catholics, it's muslim against jews and so on... Very few atheists in all that.
Well, I don't remember a problem or a war between jews and atheists

 

Hitler and Stalin were both athieists. They threw a couple parties in the Twentieth Century for aobut 40 million I believe.

 

Hitler was Christian and in his mind, probably he was terminating the Christ killers as it was official church position on that time. It was not until 1965 that pope forgave the Jews for killing Jesus.

"The national government... will maintain
and defend the foundations on which the
power of our nation rests. It will offer
strong protection to Christianity as the
very basis of our collective morality."

"Today Christians... stand at the head of [our country].
I pledge that I will never tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity...
We want to fill our culture again
with the Christian spirit.... We want to burn
out all the recent immoral developments in
literature, in the theatre, and in the
press - in short, we want to burn out
the poison of immorality which has entered
into our whole life and culture as a result
of liberal excess during the past... few years."

-Adolph Hitler
The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872

 

This is one of the most convoluted unhistorical pieces of reckoning I have yet encountered at this site.

"The individual may establish with pain today that with the appearance of Christianity the first spiritual terror entered into the far freer ancient world, but he will not be able to contest the fact that since then the world has been afflicted and dominated by this coercion, and that coercion is broken only by coercion, and terror only by terror. Only then can a new state of affairs be constructively created. Political parties are inclined to compromises; philosophies never. Political parties even reckon with opponents; philosophies proclaim their infallibility. "

Adolf Hitler - Mein Kampf

You actually BELIEVE Adolf Hitler!!!???

You and Chamberlain, huh?

 

Stalin/mao were athiests....who gives a fuck!?

An asshole can be any religion.

Hitler renounced his own faith before he ever gained power. He didn't believe they went together well.

But first and foremost, you must realize that Hitler was a pragmatic person ie he would do anything to maintain his power structure. He was a machivellian in the oddest way, and thought that if you make the lie big enough, people will believe it. I hate when people use him as a comparison. No one is comparable to him. No one.

 

umm doesn't seem to make sense , yet offcource i won't believe such things.

 

The Catholic laity in Slovakia was taught by their clergy that the Nazis were doing the will of Jesus Christ in exterminating the Jews. In 1942 before Passover, Rabbi Michael Dov-Ber Weissmandel asked for help from a fellow clergy person and long-time acquaintance, Archbishop Kametko. Rabbi Weissmandel begged the archbishop to intervene with President Tisso, to prevent the expulsion of the Jewish population from Slovakia. Archbishop Kametko replied "This is no mere expulsion. There you will not die of hunger and pestilence; there they will slaughter you all, young and old, women and children, in one day. This is your punishment for the death of our Redeemer. There is only one hope for you, to convert to our religion. Then I shall effect the annulling of this decree." (See "Min Hamezar", in "Faith After the Holocaust", Eliezer Berkovits, Ktav, 1973, pp. 16-17.)

In fall 1945, Rabbi Michael Dov-Ber Weissmandel escaped from a deportation to Auschwitz. He approached the papal nuncio (Catholic papal delegate) for help in stopping the extermination of Slovakian Jews. The official response was "This, being a Sunday, is a holy day for us. Neither I nor Father Tisso occupy ourselves with profane matters on this day." Rabbi Weissmandel asked how the murder of innocent men and women, children and babies could be considered "profane" by Christians. The Catholic Archbishop replied, "There is no innocent blood of Jewish children in the world. All Jewish blood is guilty. You have to die. This is the punishment that has been awaiting you because of that sin [the death of Jesus]." (Eliezer Berkovits, Faith, pp. 16-17.)


In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practicing Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!
In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar -orthodox-Christian Serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country.

In regard to Catholic church and pope this is what Pope Clement VIII says:

"All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor. Then, as now, Jews have to be reminded intermittently that they were enjoying rights in any country since they left Palestine and the Arabian desert, and subsequently their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live."

The Christianity has always been very anti-Semite independent of it is Catholic, Protestant or Greek Orthodox.

This is the reason that all religions are equally stupid.

 

Meaningless.

Tell that to Stalin and Mao.

 

He graduated first in his class and at the age of 14 he was awarded a scholarship to the Seminary of Tiflis (Tbilisi, Georgia), a Jesuit institution (one of his classmates was Krikor Bedros Aghajanian, the future Grégoire-Pierre Cardinal Agagianian, see [4]) which he attended from 1894 and onward. Although his mother wanted him to be a priest (even after he had become leader of the Soviet Union), he attended seminary not because of any religious vocation, but because of the lack of locally available university education. In addition to the small stipend from the scholarship Stalin was paid for singing in the choir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin#Childhood_and_early_years

There are also some suggestions that he was abused as a child while serving as alter boy, no wonder that he became a killer.

 

Amen. That was my point as well.

 

And then he destroyed all images of religion in his country, in order to impose himself as god....briefly allowing religion durning war times.

Communists were probably the worst killers of our century. The point was: that if a person is religious, that doesn't make them an asshole. It's when one comes-up with unreasonable and forceful methods (religious or not), then they're a problem, imo.

I'm a Thomas (ie it's hard for me believe), but these constant assertions that religion is evil are foolish. Ideas don't need 'heavenly' mysticism to be dangerous.

Now you tell me I have to live around religious people in the south or stalin's cronies, I'll take my chance with the south....any day of the week. Christ's words are full of wisdom, even if ones not religious.