How to win peace with Muslims: give up your religion

You're confounding things, Kalvin.

Firstly, you did say, "same old crap...false prophets...etc." This sounds pretty nigh close to "you are wrong." I don't want to pull the many quotes along these lines, but they are there.

Secondly, no. If someone wanted me to deny something I believe in, and they wanted to kill me over it, they'd find themself on the other end of misery in short order. If someone wanted to kill me over the color of my hair, they'd be equally on the short end of action.

But this isn't the definition of intolerance, by my ethos, as I've defined it above. Again, my ethos - not necessarily yours.

 

What if you were unable to fight back? I'm asking you if you'd take a bullet in the head for anything you believe.

That's the conclusion yes. The evidence is a little more wordy.

 

What are we actually discussing, Kalvin? You asked if I'd roll over is someone told me I had to give up a core belief, or die. Pretty simple question. I thought the answer, was equally simple: "no." Is there something else you'd like to pose instead?

Not following you here.

 

That's sad. You'd give up your freedom rather than take a bullet to the head.

 

Kalvin. Firstly, as it is my head, and my belief, your judgment of right and wrong is irrelevant. When I teach tactical defense to law enforcement, rape prevention and self-defense to women, and other groups for whom my teaching is useful - I teach that as it their ass then and there, there is no one rule, and they will have to make the mind and action, no one else. I do as much as possible to give them the proper tools, and drill the importance of constant training, so that action is simply that, no delay, just action. But they must make the decision. And no one dare judge them.

That said, please reread what I wrote, a couple of times, as I can't make it any clearer, but only repeat it.

Your question was:

I answered, "No" - as in, if someone was wanting me to roll over and die unless I recant a closely held belief, uh, no. There'd be no question but that I would defend myself. If someone was wanting to kill me over anything, then, uh, "no." I don't go down easy.

 

Yes or no. Is there any belief you have that you would rather die holding onto than give up.

 

Kalvin - this is turn comical. What part of:

-did you not understand? Are you asking for specific examples?

There are plenty of "beliefs" I'd die for. Primary would be if you try to kill my wife and child. Second, me. Third and fourth, my two mutts. Fifth, over my atheism. Somewhere along the line, someone tries to kill you over your beliefs and, not necessarily last, you try to because I like cooking and eating French food. You try to kill me for anything, then be prepared for a fight to the death.

Is this what you were asking for, specific examples?

 

you were going off about nothing instead of just answering the question.

If you have a belief so tightly held you'd rather die than give it up then how can you say "it might be right or it might be wrong?"

Seems to me if it was no big deal you'd just give it up to save your life.

So you are intolerant. You refuse to even consider an alternative. If you weren't, you wouldn't think twice about giving it up to save your own life. After all, you might be wrong anyway so why get yourself killed over it.

 

You are utterly missing the point, Kalvin. If you tried to kill me or mine for anything, I'd kill you. I am intolerant to my, or my beloved's, murder, yes. It isn't the defense of the belief, but my life, or that of my beloved, I am defending.

You seem to have a difficult time understanding the concept, as I have actually answered your question over and over again. I'm afraid I can't help you further. As I said,

"You are full of crap. I'm right, you're wrong."

"I do not subscribe to your beliefs. I may or may not be wrong."

-are two separate things. As is,

"You are wrong, and I'm going to kill you for it."

"Really? Well, you are free to have your beliefs, but if you try to kill me, I'm afraid I will have to defend my life."

 

If Hitler burned millions of Jews then this not mean whole christianity is Killer or terrorist!...

Just like that... if BinLadin or any other do wrong then this not mean whole Muslim community is wrong...!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hah!! Right on the money!

You know this stuff about what one would do under blah, blah, blah... Fact is, no one really knows what they will do, and may the Lord provide that we never have to face such catastophic decisions.

But I know one thing - I'd rather live snug as a bug with nary a thought of "what would I do" if I had to.

Even as a kid, when the mind would wander, I more often envisioned myself on a peaceful Polynesian island trying to conquer nothing more than that beautiful long jet-black haired bare-breasted native woman than scaling the castle walls.

 

It is you who is missing the point. What if you could not fight back tough guy? What if you were beaten and bound with a gun to your head and there was nothing you could do. Would you renouce atheism if you would be let go? A teenage girl was shot to death at Columbine for not rejecting God.

"Give me liberty or give me death"

Could you say that about any belief you have? All you're saying is that you will try to preserve your own life. You won't try to preserve your own beliefs. It's not about death. It's about refusing to back down from a belief.

You seem to be saying you would give up your freedom because you hold nothing strongly enough to say "no" when forced to adhere to someone else's views.

 

Hey, Dead! Nice to see you on the boards....you know, I remember that same Polynesian lady...from a postcard, Ft. DeRussy, Honolulu....on a dual meet between the mainland and the Hawaiian Islands. I was 12. She was a postcard...I've never been the same since.

One of these days, I'll keep my yap shut and do what I should be doing more, feeding people. Soon enough.

Kalvin...let's stop abstracts, because it seems to be getting us in trouble. What spawned this:

-By which I thought you were speaking of someone, a person, an individual, who told me that if I did not deny my core belief or they'd kill me, I would roll over. To which I answered, "No." No, I would not roll over. So, specifically, what are we talking about? You and me having our little online dialogue? Fine, then, my tactic is, "I believe one thing, you another, so, that's fine." A guy with a gun to my head, saying, "believe in god, or die?" Then, specifically, I'd wipe the specific walls clean with his specific ass.

Talking in the abstract is ludicrous. As I alluded to above, all that matters is the instant.

 

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Hahahahahahahahaha!!!

 

Okay Chuck Norris. I guess you're too tough for this hypothetical situation. You'd rather kill someone than deny your athiesm.

Sounds quite intolerant to me.

 

I'm sorry if my philosophy disturbs you such that you feel you need to turn to insults, Kalvin. I am no hero, simply someone who trades in what I know of the world. I teach people how to save their life if needs be. I don't deal in hypotheticals.

Sorry, I posted before you made your edit to try to construct, well, I'm not sure what you are trying to construct. But all the best, brother.

(By the way, I preferred "hero" to Chuck. My wife would appreciate it more).

 

KalvinK, you really need to read northpointtaiki's messages before posting the same question again, and again, and again. I love how you always ''discuss'' by trying to make fun of others instead of proving your points. This guy has been detailing everything he is saying to you, and you still reply with a sarcastic post talking about heroes, ignoring all the explanations he is giving you.

Northpointtaiki: I feel for you.

 

It wasn't an insult. You're playing hero. I was summarizing your attitude towards the situation. You're more concerned with hurting the person than considering what they want you to do.

If someone came up to me with a gun and said "deny santa claus or I'll kill you" I'd tell him "fine. done."

I wouldn't try to pretend to be Chuck Norris and kick his ass and end up getting myself or that person hurt over my belief in Santa Claus.

If you don't have a strong belief in atheism then I don't understand why you would try to hurt someone rather than tell them what they want to hear so you both can peacefully go your seperate ways.

 

Hmmm. Isn't you who started this thread talking about ''fat chances'' in response to people (Radical Muslims who are ready to kill you) asking you to say what they want to hear? So now you will deny your beliefs if they threaten your life?

 

When it comes to saving a life, mine included, I don't "play" anything, Kalvin. You can't grasp that, but you seem to have a hard time grasping a good deal of what I and others are saying. So you levy insults. That's OK.

My basic premise, drawn from experience, is that if someone draws a gun, they mean it. And so do I in response. I teach accordingly. Others have a different view, and teach accordingly. I do not judge anybody choosing any response in the moment - as I said (I seem to be saying this alot), it is their ass, and their right to protect it any way they seem fit.