It would avoid so much confusion, wasted keystrokes and time if those looking to hire content providers would post something to the effect of: This is what I need. This is what I can pay. Sure, a lot of buyers do that and it's appreciated, but for the most part they say, "Send me your offers" or "Name your price". So interested parties do, only to be told their rates are too high, too this, too that and yadda blah. Most of the time, even if you ask them point blank what their budget is, they still say, "PM me your offers" or "Send me your best price". Stop the insanity, people. State your needs. State your budget. It's exponentially easier that way for everyone involved.
I agree with you. I've wasted so much time contacting buyers only to find out that they pay next to nothing.
The ones who do it are usually bargain hunting. They don't state the budget because they know it's not much. Clients who are ready to treat you as a serious writer and willing to pay the money for good content won't be afraid to state all their terms in the posts.
I love the ones who move to PM and state that "I'm willing to pay for quality" then waste your time with several emails to define the project. Once a price is mentioned they disappear. I guess they think quality means instead of $2 an article they'll pay $5? lol
Nice to see someone else in Texas. I'm over here in Austin, wishing for some thunder and lightning. So far just a little drizzle here and there. But uh, yea I agree in that people need to state their needs and budget and stop wasting everyone's time (including their own). Well said, Senobia.
Probably they are just looking at getting the lowest possible quote and don't mention their own budgets for fear that it may be a cent higher than what the poor writer might have suggested.
It's mainly because they are looking for the lowest price possible. Either that or they will try and use the quotes they receive as a bargaining tool to get themselves the best deal possible. Another reason is, they build a list of writers and what those writers are willing to work for. I often see too the people who are looking for high quality articles, have this list of criteria that must be met, only to discover that they are offering $1.00 / 500 words. I understand that the cost of living is different throughout the world, but people need to understand that the more work you want the writer to do and the higher the quality you want, the pay rate has to increase in order to attract a qualified writer who is capable of producing the high quality work that is expected.
They obviously want the lowest price and are embarrassed themselves to quote $1 per 500 words. Not to forget, they want quality, fast turn around time, no errors, and just about everything deserving of a $30 article. That's the sad situation. Hopefully, Google's Panda and Penguin may be just the right thing to get rid of $1 clan. Honestly, these days, $1 doesn't hold much good in any country around the globe.
I agree it is a waste of peoples time not to list your budget in a market where prices vary, it is a game to find the cheapest bid. Personally I don't like to deal with cheapskates that play games. Many writers also do this. They will advertise they are looking for work with No.. price? They expect people to inquire "how much do you need to write??" "Depends" Depends on what?? "the job" "the research" the weather" -Waste of Time- I am a freelancer and understand all jobs are different that's why people need say "I need to make _____ an hour" and buyers need to list their budget. Reality is the market if flooded with people looking for work so buyers will get people to play this stupid time wasting game. But they will usually only find desperate poorly educated people to play.
Everyone seems to expect the most for the least price, I worked in hosting for a while and it is the same there, people pay $3 a month and expect 1TB and fully managed integrated service. Despite the fact we offered those sorts of things for higher prices.
The problem for writers is that if you quote an hourly rate without knowing about the project in advance you end up in a debate as to how much time the project "should" require. And then there's the folks who seem to equate typing speed with the time required to research and write a piece. (Not entirely the buyers' fault when so many so-called writers come on DP and brag about how fast they can type and churn out articles.) A recent inquiry from a fellow DP member involved multiple emails back and forth. It boiled down to they didn't trust me enough to share what the project actually was yet wanted me to give them a binding price. Giving them an hourly rate wouldn't have done either of us a service. What if they thought I could write their blog posts in 30 minutes and the articles would actually take 120 minutes to research and write?
I agree and disagree, most industries have a standard time for common projects. example- web design-custom theme from scratch 40hrs writer- article 300-500 words 1hour mechanic- Honda timing belt 5hours So a webmaster needs content for a 5 page website I would assume most writers could do that in 5 hours or less depending on site content. I have had writers tell me I would take a week/40hrs I say "so you type 2words a min and take a break every 10mins?" Sorry to waste your time I see it is very valuable. lol When I build websites I have to do all "research" on my own time. I can't tell clients I don't know that code, plug in, theme, etc so you need to pay a few hours for me to research it. Just like my mechanic doesn't say I don't know that year of car you will have to pay me a few hours to research it. Research and knowledge separates people from common labor so they get paid more. I don't think it is only up to the buyer to post money expectations, it is a 2 way street. I always see writers around DP with ads and you have no clue what they are expecting...? .01 a word? $200? $50? and they expect a customer to stop at their ad(out of dozens and dozens) send back and forth emails just to see what kind of price they are looking at. By the time they respond to 1 message someone else is probably hired and getting the job done.
Does any other service field tell you how much you're going to pay before you tell them what you want? Does a mechanic tell you it's going to cost $50 to fix your car, sight unseen? Does a restaurant tell you your dinner is going to cost $25 before you know what you're having? Does a doctor tell you it's going to cost $40 to cure you without doing an exam? Then why do you expect a writer to tell you what their services are going to cost without knowing what the project consists of?
If you go back and read I was talking about "standard time for common projects" like a 500 word article, 5 pages website, etc. It should not be so hard to get a simple quote.
OK, since you threw out three things as examples... Timing Belt Example Let's start with the easiest one...the timing belt. First off, IMHO, it's not a comparable project. It's straightforward and there's probably only 1 or 2 ways to attack it. A fair assumption is that all Honda Accords are made and designed the same way. Therefore the mechanic knows how long it should take to get to the old timing belt, take it out, install the new one and put everything else back in place. We'll assume all of the components in between are in working order and there are no surprises once the mechanic is under the hood. Just about everything in the process can be duplicated and measured. Articles for a 4-5 page Website Writing a 300-500 word article in 1 hour. We've had that conversation before and I think we sorta agreed to disagree on that topic. Content for a 4-5 page website in less than 5 hours? Depending upon the project, I may spend that much time doing competitor research. I generally spend at least 2 hours getting to know the client, who they are, what their business persona is, who their real target customers are (it's amazing how many business owners don't know), what they hope to gain from their website, how we can use it to bring in new customers and a laundry list of other things. A great deal of that conversation is held prior to giving them a bid and that cost is somewhat embedded into my pricing. I know before I start about the client and what they generally are like to work. I can also develop a clearly defined list of action items for both of us. Even if it's just a MFA site about Boston Terrier puppies, I will still do competitor and keyword research. I'm also going to take a peek at the coding of their site - the way pictures are named, etc. The site owner may be doing everything they can to help their SEO efforts. However, if they are using a standard WordPress theme where every page has the same content in the H1 tag or some other silly thing, I'm going to suggest they get it fixed. Custom Web Design Custom web theme always = 40 hours??? Hmmm, by using the word "theme" does that mean WordPress or any generic template? Are you saying something done on speculation for a site like ThemeForest or something ordered by a specific client? If a WordPress install, does that include installing and configuring all of the plugins as well? Or are you providing just the basic skeleton/theme? If just the skeleton, will you be providing any documentation to help someone to install and/or customize your work? Does that include a custom logo? Is the client expected to provide the logo and all photos? Will you provide any editing services for photos? What about any written content? Who provides it? How much time is spent on talking/emailing the buyer as to understanding their business, what they sell and the best way to present their company and their inventory/services? How much time is spent asking the client what other themes they like, what they like about them and what they don't like about them? How much time is spent visiting the sites of their competition to see what they do well and look for shortcomings to exploit? How many edits are they allowed to ask for? My point is that depending upon the client and their project, you could easily spend 10-20 hours on just getting a strategic plan together for their site and discussing what the overall site will look like. Will they just have a 4-5 page brochure site forever or if they foresee later adding a blog, an online shop or even a customer support forum? There are so many variables involved that it seems quite shortsighted to treat all projects that same. 40 hours may be the average but then some projects may require a month or more. On the other hand, if you were talking about 40 hours for a standard WordPress theme with no particular client in mind, I would think 40 hours is way too high. Once you get your own base template files set up the way you like, for a talented web designer, who works with WordPress a lot, changing things around shouldn't take all that long. You probably have a library or source for code snippets, textures, backgrounds and images so it's just a matter of going to them to grab what you need - i.e. no back and forth with a client about pictures, backgrounds or color choices. A Suggestion for Content Buyers Perhaps rather than asking content buyers to only state their budgets, perhaps we should ask them to provide the following information as well...It would save so much time for everyone. Are you looking for essay-style content or true sales copy? (Let's assume for this conversation that they want essays.) Do you want a generic essay on the topic without regard to keywords, i.e. providing quality information is more important that having a keyword stuffed piece of fluff? If you want the pieces to target certain keywords, will you be providing those? Will the likelihood of the writer getting additional work from you depend upon the article ranking in the top 10 for those keywords? Do you understand the difference between a piece of meaningless, keyword-filled fluff and a well-researched article? Can the writer simply rewrite a Wikipedia article for you or would you want well-researched pieces requiring 3 or more primary sources? Do you want an article that could be submitted to a magazine in your target industry or is something equivalent to a middle school student essay? Will you be providing specific topics or is the writer expected to find them? If the writer will be expected to come up with the topics, how are they going to be categorized on your site? That would at least be a start where every answer could eliminate potential writers.
Mmmm... Bottom line? Buyers are trying to get the cheapest deal possible. Preferably sweatshop rates. And then they have the temerity to bitch and whine about the quality - or pathetic lack thereof.
Just another quick thought: It occurred to me a long time ago that, generally, there is a patent lack of 'respect' for online writers. It is almost as if we are classed as the "bottom feeders" of the Internet food chain. If you look at the tone of some of the posts by buyers in the market for content, there is a palpable show of disdain, almost contempt. Sometimes, before even delivering one single written word, I am "warned" by the potential content buyer that they are sick and tired of being done in with rubbish quality work, dished up by imbeciles, plagiarists and scam artists, and they "warn me" that they have their trigger finger already hovering over the COPYSCAPE button to catch me out as we speak, so BEWARE!!!! All I have to say to these people is that if you want original, engaging, well researched and well written articles, yet are prepared to pay a third world country's street sweeper's penny-rates per hour, well then, go ahead, do it yourself!