North America is currently facing a problem unique to human history in that an increasingly large segment of its populace, especially within its youth demographic, is going backwards in its understanding of science. One need only read any number of countless daily online offerings to realize that an anti science mentality has taken hold at a grassroots level and is gaining a frightening momentum. What is extremely surprising about this growing trend is that it is in terms of the global community, completely localized. Small pockets primarily located in only one first world nation seem to be utilizing any and all methods at their disposal to further their singular agenda. This is not to say that a belief in creation is in itself negative, after all, not one of us can say with certainty how all of existence came to be. Nor would I suggest that creationists are unique to North America or to any specific religion as they exist all over the world. But nowhere else in the world, outside of a handful of theocracies and oppressive regimes, is science subjected to such a volume of misinformed attack. Back to the question posed in the thread title: Does anyone have any ideas on how this problem can be solved?
Patience, Courage, Understanding, Kindness, Educating, Awareness. That should do it. Finding creative ways to help people understand with reason.
I would normally agree that taking the high road is the most desirable path but when these type of efforts are consistently met with insults, scorn and derision, are those types of benign tactics ever going to accomplish anything?
Hopefully. I mean, i don't see another way. People tend to be more blind when they are on the defensive, and that's easy to do when it comes to personal beliefs and especially faith. So i don't think much can be won by force feeding them. Learning to speak their language and terminology is also key to helping people understand and pushing their religious boundaries. As the old saying goes, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Disclaimer: I want to make it clear that i am not saying God and Creationism is False. The truth is, i don't know. But Free thinking should never be demonized and its that kind of mentality that divides people and kills growth.
I'm sure that education is the key. Unfortunately, I don't think god belief will ever disappear. The gods that are accepted today will be replaced by new gods, just as the gods of the past have been replaced with the gods of today....some people can't go through life without help. Due of the internet, more and more information is available and as we know, information and education is the enemy of religion. Sadly, the need for some people to believe in mythology will always be with us. All the rest of us can do is move on and hope that one day they will catch up with us. I was surprised that you say Canada's population of theists is increasing! I always considered Canadians to be somewhat more 'enlightened' than their 'God fearing' neighbours in America. Mind you Gomeza, it doesn't help when your federal Minister of State for Science and Technology in Canada, Gary Goodyear, is a Christian that is rather reluctant to answer questions as to whether or not he believes in creation or evolution. Take heart though. Creationists in Canada still only number 22%.
...but I think we can say with some certainty that it had nothing to do with invisible omnimax deities....and I think that a belief in 'creation' IS negative.
I didn't actually say that Canada's theist population is increasing, it is actually decreasing but far too slowly for my liking. I have to agree that belief in God will never disappear, it is part of human makeup, at least for a large percentage of our species. When I speak of North America collectively as in the manner I began this thread, I am taking into account the influence of American society on Canadian society, especially as it pertains to the deleterious effect that a grass roots anti science campaign emanating from religious beliefs imposes on all of North America. Where we have our own home grown fundamentalists, we also have a great number of "branch plant" fundies, or those adhering to forms of evangelism that is headquartered south of the border. Negative cultural influences that we would prefer to do without. It would be nice if the border stopped them but unfortunately it doesn't. For example; my youngest daughter just returned from a trip out west where she visited the Drumheller dinosaur digs in Alberta. Since I was there a few years ago, some American outfit has built a "Creationist natural history museum" a few feet away from the real natural history museum where they are attempting to spin their whoppers about humans living amongst all of the dinosaurs found there. When the economic fortunes of two countries are so heavily dependent on each other, it is disconcerting that one of the countries is dumbing down large segments of their youth to the extent that it effectively hinders them from developing the scientific and technical innovation skills needed to compete globally.
That was me being diplomatic and to a certain extent attempting to distinguish between the belief itself and the ludicrous lengths some people will go to in an effort to reconcile those beliefs with reality.
We must keep up the line of defence Gomeza. If all atheists everywhere simply shut up and let theists get on with it... they would happily walk into our halls of power, education and science and change everything and we would be all the worse off for it. The godzombies are trying this all the time. They want politics based on their religion, whether it be Christian teachings or Sharia law. They want education to teach their religion, especially the creationists in the US. They want to teach pseudo-science in the guise of 'Intelligent Design'. They want to curtail science based on their religious ethics, such as the idea that since their god puts the 'sou'l into the zygote at conception, then stem cell research is evil. We must fight against against such people and their primitive ideas, it is REQUIRED to do so... or their kooky ideas will march unhindered into our halls of power, education and science. I have fought against them all my life and will continue to do so. Take heart that there are more and more people joining us Gomeza. I am happy there are those willing to stand up and explain exactly what ludicrous rubbish, and in many cases dangerous ludicrous rubbish these godzombies are filling the heads of children with. Keep up the good fight bro! Oh no, no, no Gomeza. Never pussy-foot around the issues. Never be 'diplomatic'. Take a leaf out of Menken's book. "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame. True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge. ..................." -- H L Mencken,
Considering between west coast and east coast of USA ia a vast area of wilderness, mostly populated by morons, I don´t believe couple of more stupids makes any real difference.
I don't see Creationists as a "problem" that needs solving. Freedom of religion, to believe or disbelieve, is a very basic human right.
Absolutely right, with one caveat. With socialized education comes the battle for what the collective puts in children's our text books, and the creationists are constantly arguing to either a) remove it if we cant agree on it (really? remove evolution?) or present intelligent design as an alternative scientific theory, when there is no science behind it. Again, even there, the creationists are not a true problem, as they have pretty much lost the war for textbook content in the US. By comparison, teachers unions, are directly responsible for the dumbing down of American students and the decline of our public education system. Its ironic when you think about it. Everyone look at the creationist boogeyman while we make your children stupid with our socialist dogmatism. Where are your halls of power located? I'd like to walk in them, just to have a look see where such tremendous power emanates from. When you say "our", are you referring to you and your cat? @Rebecca: Note the irony of this quote of Mencken, a follower of Ayn Rand and hater of FDR and the New Deal, being used by a guy who indulges himself on such imbecilities as the idea of the poor, oppressed, and peaceful people of Palestine, Even more ironic that it be used in a thread that incorrectly identifies creationism as the "big threat" to American, and Canadian education. A thread where our devout Marxist GWorld piles on to call all Americans stupid. All the statistics indicate we are rapidly becoming less religious as a society, yet the percentage of dogmatic and (comparatively) dumb people remains EXACTLY the same. Now THAT is a problem worth doing something about. [Edit] @OP: If everyone had exactly the same education from exactly the same school, same teachers and same text, would there be any more or less stupid people in the world?
Freedom of religious expression is a worthy ideal and one that I agree with in principle but the reality is a society can only maintain this freedom if it remains secular. Where the creationists are posing an enormous problem to society is in their relentless attempts to advance their beliefs by any means possible, regardless of the outcome while ignoring the rights of others. The results of this prolonged effort are now just manifesting themselves in a generation where an enormous segment of children reaching college age are incapable of defining the criteria of a scientific theory, a stark contrast to 25 years ago. In a time when all of the world economies are competing globally as never before and with the acknowledgment that scientific discovery and technical innovation are vital aspects of that competition . . . can we as first world societies continue to carry the dead weight of an anti science agenda in the name of upholding the freedom of religious expression ideal?
I feel that in a public forum diplomacy is a vital element of discourse. In real life however I tend to club religious folks over the head (figuratively) the second I am included in or subjected to their irrational beliefs. Considering all of the insults, condescension, ostracism and vilification I have endured at their hands over the years, I have no problem whatsoever responding in kind.
I don't think that there is much argument about the role that teachers and their unions have played in the decline of North American education but I feel it is entirely unfair to lay all of the blame at their feet. For example; they have had little to do with the homeschooling trend where children are removed from public schools solely as a religious objection to what is perceived as a secular curriculum. I'm sorry but I have no idea what this statement means. What socialist dogmatism are you speaking of?
I think he's very much against a world where people exercise some social conscience...a world where those that have, look after those that are less fortunate. I bet he was seething about the Obama health bills. LOL! I mean..the idea that his taxes are going to help those who are in need...OUTRAGEOUS!!! LMFAO!
Oh I agree entirely, providing those who believe keep it to themselves. If you want to believe in fairies, then all the power to you. However, you should not, not even for second, expect to be treated as a normal, sane person. You are not one. Do not expect to talk about your fairy in public and have me sit quietly and not question you. Do not expect my respect. You won't get it. I don't feel obliged to give it. Do not expect a tax write off because you believe the fairy lives in your house. Do not expect a national fairy holiday. Do not talk about your fairy in the work place. Do not try to get laws passed based on what you think your fairy likes and dislikes. Do nor demand that our children are taught about your fairy. Do not for a moment take any public resources away on behalf of your belief in fairies and do not, under any circumstances, tell me that I am 'a sinner' or 'lost' or tell me that I am a lesser person than you...just because I refuse to believe in your fairy. If you do that Rebecca, you can have all the 'Freedom of Religion' you want. PS When I say "You" I'm not referring to you personally. I just don't like using "one" very much.
Sorry, I have no wish to discuss anything with someone that has been proven to misrepresent and even lie about what opponent has said. Have a nice day.
I'm interested in hearing his explanation of this statement but I think you may be correct. If you can imagine, being born and raised in a completely different social paradigm, (where we aren't rendered unintelligible at the mention of the word "socialism" and understand the true dictionary meaning of the word), I feel it only fair to clarify if the author of such a statement is referring to an identifiable social trend I may not be aware of in his part of the world, or simply regurgitating right wing propaganda. If it is the latter, I view it with the same disdain as a drunk barfing on my shoes . . . but I'll wait and see if he is willing to shed some light on this remark before jumping to any conclusions.
Right. I wonder if it would be better to eliminate public schools completely? Private schools, including religious ones, appear to be more efficient at educating children.