Israel blows up bus full of Jews in Bulgaria

Sorry, I don't discuss topics with people that openly lie.

 

I thought you liked Palestinians.

 

You've lost me. Where were we talking about a 'holocaust'??

It's more a testament to the fact that Israel is being restrained by the USA. Can you imagine how much face the USA would loose in the world if it was seen that the trillions of dollars they pump into Israel was being used to OPENLY slaughter civilians? If Israel keep the number of civilian casualties relatively small, they can keep making us laugh by saying 'Oh we're very sorry but 25 of our sophisticated, ultra-hightec, laser-guided weapons that can hit a tin of beans from 5 miles away just happened to all go off course and hit a school, a hospital and a couple of refugee camps.'

Have you not been following this thread and the HAMAS thread? There are stacks of links to respected news sources like the 'Guardian', 'Independent' and the BBC There are also reports form the UN, the UN Security Council and the Red Cross...and they all confirm that civilians are being targeted by Israel. There is one report from the UN where they gave the Israeli military the GPS co-ordinates of a building that was known to be sheltering women and children ...and they STILL shelled it!

Well I'm not so sure that it is browntwn! Let's look at a hypothetical situation. Let's say that Hamas fighters are launching rockets from a position that is known to contain women and children. Do you think that it is a morally responsible act for a civilised country such as Israel to launch two or three high-tec guided missiles at the school in the hope that they will kill two or three Hamas fighters, KNOWING that they will kill 50 women and children in the process? Most civilised people would condemn such action. Most civilised people would say that such means do not justify the end. Be honest with me here browntwn...do you think that the American or the British military, if placed in the same scenario, would shell a school knowing that it was full of women and children?

...and the world has seen videos of the many Israeli atrocities against Palestine.

There is no point. For every one 'act of terrorism' committed by one side I can show you one committed by the other side. Why don't you sit quietly for a moment and reflect on this following scene....

You are sat at home watching TV with your wife and children. Suddenly the door gets kicked in and six armed Canadian soldiers rush in. You are told to pick up what you can carry in your arms and get out. You watch as your home and possessions are destroyed. You are told by the Canadians that they need the land that you legally own and from which you make a living , to build houses for all the Canadians that want to come and illegally live in your country. You are herded into a refugee camp and basically left to survive as best you can. Are you really going to sit there and tell me that you would be happy with that? Can you honestly say that YOU would not feel like fighting those that are enjoying a high standard of living on land that you legally own whilst you starve in a refugee camp...and fighting them with whatever means you can get your hands on.

Now that is the position that Palestinians find themselves in. So I'll ask you the same question that Obamaman refused to answer. WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THAT SITUATION?

 

That is ridiculous. You cannot compare 9/11 with the holocaust.

I don't agree with what Bin Laden did. However, it must be noted that the civilians were not the target, the world trade centre and the pentagon were the targets. The civilians are collateral damage.

Pladecalvo is an atheist.

 

Constant threats and provocations? Really ?

1948 - Jews steal Palestinians land. And kick out 800,000 Palestinians from their homeland.

1956 - Israel, Britain and France attack Egypt to in an attempt to over throw Gamal AbdelNasser

1967 - Israel attacks Egypt, Syria and Jordan

1982 - Israel invades Lebanon

2006 - Israel invades Lebanon

2008 - Israel invades Gaza

2012 - Threatening to invade Iran

 

....Copied and pasted from the website of the the 'ISRAEL MINISTRY FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS.'
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchiv...tinian+use+of+ambulances+and+medical+mate.htm

Not too biased then?? LMFAO!!! What a hoot! You guys accuse me of being biased and then go and post links form the Israeli Ministry of Propaganda!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!! Priceless!

 

If I had a well known policy declaring I will be firing back at any missile launches coming my way, and if it can be proved the rockets came from that building (with even 100 innocent people inside) I would also fire back, and i'm a Palestinian sympathiser. It's not like we (the world) haven't been warned of that repercussion 100 times already. Your numbers don't include the number of dead people caused by lack of medicine and/or facilities due to constant war either which greatly increase the Palestine numbers.
I think Palestinians need to lay down their arms (and make sure the world knows about it). When a few are outrightly 'slaughtered' by Israeli's (if we can really believe the propaganda) then the world will sort it out properly. Stop physically fighting and fight using the legal system to work out what is right. Sadly, I really don't think they (most Palestinians) are smart enough to do that.

 

What a BS. Are you aware that Ghandi story of non-violance resitance is just a story and it was actually the treat of Guerilla warfare in India that forced England to leave? Where is the world with all the killings and mass starvations that is happening around the globe?

 

No idea about Ghandi, though I do know he was renowned for peace. I was thinking more of the Jesus quote LoL. 'turn the other cheek'

The world has no idea what is truly going on right now, including me. Too full of every one elses opinions rather than fact I suspect.

 

Conversely, the Israeli's could get their arses back behind the pre '67 borders. They are the original aggressors after all. They are the ones that are illegally occupying Palestinian land.

I'd certainly vote for an end to the fighting and a political solution that is acceptable to both sides...but I don't agree that it is the Palestinians that should have to 'turn the other cheek' and lay down their weapons? The Israelis are the illegal occupying force. Thieves cannot be seen to profit from their actions. Let them move first.

 

Jesus end up on a cross, is this what you recommend for Palestinians?

The world knows exactly what is happening, long time ago I was in Africa were the massacre was happening and we couldn´t do anything to stop it. We were keep sending reports but no one cared. "world" only cares about people suffering if they are sitting on top of oil or other minning resourese reserve or their piece of land is important in the geo-political game among the world powers.

 

I believe it's up to the Palestinians to declare peace with Israel (lay down war weapons) loudly first. They're the ones pleading for the world to help them, whilst Israel already has it's loud backers, after all, we put them there so of course we will back them. IMHO it's the Palestinian's sense of loss that drove the war from the start and keeps it going. I also do believe Israel has a right to exist, as well as Palestine has a right to exist too, but, if Palestine keeps firing at the current rate then it will be wiped out eventually, with the world still wondering who was right and the winner gets to write the history his way. I think the Palestine people could greatly benefit from a friendship with the Israelis instead of the continual loss of life by enemies that needn't be.

 

The Israeli's have already declared that Jerusalem (which is Palestinian territory) will be their eternal capital. They have declared that the 7 million refugees will not get to return to what is now Israel. Why should the Palestinians make peace with Israel again ?

 

You have good intentions but you are incredibly naive. Have you ever heard, The road to hell is paved with good intentions?

 

What has stuck out to me over the last ten years or so is no matter what you try there's always going to be someone with a totally opposing agenda, sabotaging it. That means you do have to break a few eggs. How do you suggest it may be fixed other than both sides dropping arms & taking up a legal fight for land rights instead?

Israel cannot simply disarm as it has more than Palestine to contend with.

 

I don't think anyone is expecting Israel to disarm. Clearly that is not possible but by the same token, I don't think it's fair to expect Palestine to disarm either. My dream would be that both sides agreed a cease-fire and pursue a political solution.

Yeah...well I did say it was a 'dream'.

 

My Irony alarm is screaming right now.

 

GWorld: This thread, its title, are a simple, obvious expression of pure hatred, an unadulterated lie, an utter disrepect for the people who were blown to bits by a terrorist on the day, before the thread was started, and frankly at its most minimal, the thread title and its existence on this forum and in this section...that has a policy against hatred.

On the day after these people were blown to bits this thread and its imbecilic typical hate package was published. That is nothing less than an expression of utter hatred, let alone another in a long line by the thread's author, of showing utter disrespect for human life.

There is a another deeper lie within this thread and the endless defense of the Palestinian people, by either non Palestinians muslims, or those who aren't Islamic, but sympathize with the Palestinians to the extent of blaming Israel all the time.

Since 1948 not one muslim nation has ever extended itself to the Palestinians to support and enhance their lives. Not one. Subsequent to the creation of Israel, Palestinians migrated to the Gulf States and ultimately became both successful and enterprising, particularly assisting in the development of very small Kuwait. In 1991 in response to the attack by Iraq and subsequent defeat of Iraq, the Gulf States and particularly Kuwait, showed their true colors about Palestinians by deporting, treating like sh!t, and emasculating a population of between 400-500,000 Palestinians:

source and a more explicit source

Islamic press suppressed the story in its entirety. It was reported in some Western press by example here and another example here.

While initially exposing the story, the Western press didn't follow up on this story. Why not? Who helped to suppress this truism? Simply the Gulf Arabs turned on Palestinians, treated them worse than penned in Animals and across the board forced them into utter exile. The irony is that over several decades many Palestinians proved themselves to be the meritocracy of Kuwait from the late 1940's through to 1991 helping to modernize that small "nation" and create a working business environment.

Not a single Muslim nation has welcomed Palestinians nor treated them with respect or taken care of them in any way of any merit. Lots of big words but zero big support.

The entire world uses Israel to divert attention from its miserable tyrannical governments. The self same Islamic governments that have been the target of enormously dissatisfied citizens for the past 2 years.

In May of this year Assad, trying to divert attention from his own miserable slaughter of his own people helped organize and transport Palestinians in Syria to the Israel border to overrun it.

take this perspective:

Again....that is the guy responsible for slaughtering around 18,000 of his own people to maintain his power. For one day he used Israel as a diversion for his slaughter of his own people.

The issues in Islamic dominated nations over the last 60 years is that the aggregated anger perpetuated by those in power over mostly economically deprived people who are dramatically less educated than elsewhere ends up in incredibly long horrendous mass killings that last years and years if not decades.

For me one of the more revealing episodes in seeing the difference in attitudes from being in the middle east versus having moved to a freer nation without the built in hatred was on the eve of Desert Storm. I was dining out with friends including a man who had immigrated from Beirut Lebanon with his family to leave the 15 year long civil war in Lebanon. A waiter came by, and within a few moments my friend and the waiter recognized one another's accents and started to speak in Arabic. When the waiter left to return to the kitchen our friend explained that the waiter and he were on opposite sides in Lebanon in Beirut. Probably they used to shoot at one another and each other's families.

The waiter came out of the kitchen with other Lebanese staffers and they all greeted my friend in Arabic and wished us all well. My friend told us ..they were all from "the other side". Later in the evening the news hit that Desert Storm started in Kuwait. The waiter came out and broke the news to our table and my friend. The two ex Lebanese both said they were glad not to be in the Middle East.

Its a lot easier living and being Islamic in a nation and culture where you don't have to shoot everyone else all the time as a part of the cultural/religious environment. Its probably associated with the fact that for the last 60 years while brilliant Islamic scientists have made great discoveries, none within Muslim lands have done so. The cultures/religious hatred have eliminated that possibility. Its too bad, isn't it.

In late 2010 the "Arab Spring" began Domestic reactions from citizens toward oppressive governments occurred in

Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, Sudan, Lebanon. Some were suppressed with violent killings. Some ended up in being outright revolutions, some were minor, in Syria right now we are seeing a full fledged civil war.

Not one of these events had anything to do with Israel. The citizens hate the oppressive freedom crushing regimes. The people in power throughout the Middle East are oppressive dictators. They have also wrapped themselves around the Islamic religion, regardless of denomination. Its simple widespread suppression of human beings.

Frankly the regimes are little different from the "crappy ass" regimes that created WWII, something you called a "christian war". Frankly, I don't see how the part of WWII in Asia was Christian as the Japanese slaughtered millions of Chinese, Koreans, Phillipino's etc. few of whom were Christian. Moreover Hitler, a murderous bastard was distinctly non-Christian, and his original ally, and then enemy Russia was essentially non religious (at least a the top of the regime).

Clearly if you go back in history there were brutish examples of Christian Wars, (the Christian part of the Crusades), the Hundred Years War, etc. but not recently. Even as the wars you described were brutish and killed immense numbers of people...they were not as tied to religion as are the current 60 year period of primarily Muslims killing 10 million Muslims (and far fewer non Muslims). The differences are enormous.

Frankly I feel badly for the Palestinians who are oppressed in Gaza, the West Bank and places dispersed. They have received rotten treatment.

One can partially blame Israel, but Israel at least must defend itself against self described enemies that want to wipe it out and have proclaimed such for 60 years.

Meanwhile the Islamic people, non Palestinians, have simply treated the Palestinians as a mechanism for diverting attention from their utterly despicable regimes for the past 6 decades. They are similarly to blame and frankly of that lot the Gulf Arabs, that simply used the Palestinians to build their nation(s) then turned on them and tortured, killed, and ultimately drove them out of the Gulf in massive numbers are the worst of the lot.

The fact that the World Press didn't aggressively promote this tale of despicable treatment is a shame to the advancement of the human condition.

GWorld if you are unable to maintain a balanced perspective, then that is too bad for you.

 

Just because you think the OP is a lier, it doesn´t give you a license to lie, does it? Your whole long post takes a simple fact for example Arab nations be ruled by dictators or be poor and make a story to serve your own agenda. I totally agree that most of Arab countries ruled by dictators but this is not because of Islam or because Arabs are stupid and don´t understand democracy. It is bebecause the world powers such as USA and Russia have put these dictators in place to serve their agenda, the same thing that we can see in South America. You mentioned that Hitler was not Christian which is a total nonsense and his own books in Support of Christian values proves you wrong and someone can make a story in the same way that Hilter was the ultimate Christian who punished the Jews for Killing Jesus. In fact, it was not until 1967 that Vatican dissolved the Jews from the sin of killing Jesus, but then my post would be as BS as yours by blaming WWII on religion. There is always economical and geo-political reasons behind every war and conflict even if sometimes it is coverd in high pitched slogans of religion.
As an example of this high pitched slogans is the term Judeo-Christian values and culture that Crowin usually refers to in his posts and in reality means unconditional support of Israel but the term in this form is only about 20 years old and in reality Jews consider Jesus a false profit and a charletan while Christians blamed the jews for killing their profit Jesus. Do you see how easy it is to change the reality to suit a political agenda and make people actually believe it?

 

Sadly, the propaganda tactics used by the OP in this thread are the same as used by many muslim countries and the palestinians.
Mikael, shame on your sir.