Amen, Lily, amen... But where did you ever get the idea I would disagree with this in any way at all? I thought we were talking about something completely different. IN Christ
Really? He said that? You've got it on video? The words being uttered from his mouth caught in living color? Quick, call CNN! Or is it just a story that was written several hundred years after he died by someone with their own personal biases, beliefs and agenda? Me thinks its the latter... Call me when you have something intelligent to add to the conversation.
Most excellent comment SS! It's nice to see there are others around that can think and reason for themselves instead of having to rely on someone else to do their thinking for them. Can I get an AMEN!? (oh yea, for all you jebus believers... do you know where "amen" comes from? It comes from the ancient Egyptian's worshiping Amen Ra, or Ra for short. So every time you say "amen" in church, just keep in mind that in fact you are worshiping the Sun god of the Egyptians. Amazing, huh? Imagine, ancient pagan rituals incorporated into christianity. Don't get me started on christmas...)
Quick questions: Who is responsible for evil if God created everything in this universe? Also, why do we need to have the judgment day? Even before we were born, God already knew what we are going to do? How are we different from slaves? free will??? Slaves have free will also. They can do whatever they want. If they don't follow their master's wishes, they will get whipped. Same for humans? If we don't follow our God's wishes, we will all go to HELL. Not much of a free will is it?
You probably never heard this scripture before: 2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. You see, just as when we look in the mirror and still see the reflection of the "old man" we know that we ourselves are yet new. And so it goes with a day, or a saying, or a festival... All things are new in Christ. As for your little litmus test per the New Testament, when you ask: you betray your own bias, not mine. See, for you to believe your response should be taken seriously, you would have to deny practically every bit of human knowledge ever experienced. CNN and videos really are on the short side of human history. For example, was the creation and signing into effect of the United States Constitution ever filmed on video? Was CNN ever alerted? You get the drift? I don't mind discussing the fundamentals, I just want those participating to hold themselves and their beliefs accountable to the same standards they wish to apply to mine own. It makes it so much more interesting that way. Else - I just move on and leave the blow-fish to themselves.
If there is no God, then it stands to reason that there really can't be any sin. If there is no sin, then there really is no such thing as crime because while we may be able to be held accountable here on earth, we have nothing to fear after we die (other than complete oblvion, or perhaps to "blend" into the nothingness of the universe). Therefore, let's all party like it's 1999 (wait, that wasn't much of a party, was it?).
I am agnostic, yet I follow a code of ethics. Inside of myself I know what is right or wrong. I don't avoid doing something wrong because I am afraid to burn in hell. I avoid doing something wrong because I sincerely don't want to hurt myself or others.
And I apolgize--I was being facetious. I have a very strong faith and belief in God and I think, particularly in light of your near death experience, that you have a greater hope and belief than you are willing to admit to yourself at present time.
All of your questios are very tough to answer ., but one thing is for sure There is nothing called as judgement day.,
That's for sure now is it? Well let's just say I'm not taking any chances and I'm trying to live my life as if there IS a judgement day. No need getting caught with my proverbial pants down and getting stuck in hell for eternity just because I was so cock sure I would not be held accountable for my thoughts and actions here on earth.
HAHAHAHA! "God" has just been pwnt! Green rep coming your way Rebecca, great thread. There are just way too many paradoxes which make it impossible for a God or supreme being to exist, even if all the lies most religions impart are not taken into account. I love the way some posters in this thread quote from the bible as if it's a factual book, hilarious.
Your laughter is cacaphonous. It resounds as the hollow laughter of a naughty child who actually has nothing really to say. For, let us examine your post. Sentence Number #1. "HAHAHAHA! "God" has just been pwnt!" Well, now I suppose here is debate at it's best Nor am I certain what your word "pwnt" means. Is it something "new?" Serious debate frowns upon such nuance as I'm certain you are well aware. Sentence #2, Part 1. "There are just way too many paradoxes which make it impossible for a God or supreme being to exist" none of which you elaborate upon, a sure sign of the weakness of your argument, and Part 2. "...even if all the lies most religions impart are not taken into account." again, you not only do not offer any examples, you also suggest that at least one religion (if not more) in your estimation does not offer any such lies. Very confusing and sloppy wording, I imagine quite reflective of the inside of your shallow mind. Sentence #3. 'I love the way some posters in this thread quote from the bible as if it's a factual book, hilarious." Again very sloppy ill-organized delivery. You see, actually, the Bible IS factual. It does exist. And even the most ardent of athiests who are to be taken seriously for their position as men and women of interest in the world of debate, acknowledge it's "factuality." What they dispute is either some of it's factuality, or some or all of it's interpretation. But no one serious has ever debated the fact that the Bible is a factual book. And the fact that you find it "hilarious" in your haughty supercilious tone again only reflects your frustration with yourself in being unable to present, (and I believe think) of any such logical argument either for or against that which you propose to believe. You are as confused as your rhetoric. Do you clean your bedroom? I was just wondering because I read a study that suggests that the way one treats his/her room or interior of their car quite often parallels the confusion inside their minds. Your words are, in my estimation, a reflection of the lack of clarity which most likely surrounds everything else about you.
I know, I think I am having a harder time understanding the concept of a God now than before I even started this thread. Most people have even better questions than the ones I originally posted. Like superseo saying: "Quick questions: Who is responsible for evil if God created everything in this universe? Also, why do we need to have the judgment day? Even before we were born, God already knew what we are going to do? How are we different from slaves? free will??? Slaves have free will also. They can do whatever they want. If they don't follow their master's wishes, they will get whipped. Same for humans? If we don't follow our God's wishes, we will all go to HELL. Not much of a free will is it?" I don't think any one can even answer these, and they do make you think. I would never say God doesn't exist for sure, because that would seem too arrogant of me. It would be like saying that all the knowledge I have now, is all the knowledge that exists in the universe. But on the other hand, the harder I try to understand religion the more contradictions I find and the more questions I have, and the further I run in the opposite direction.
Rebecca, you write: I am quite ill today and house-ridden. I thank you once again for the thoughtful way in which you ask or reflect actual questions and look forward to answering all of them, one at a time... This very day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox http://www.wordsmith.demon.co.uk/paradoxes/ You know precisely well what I meant there, the factual accuracy & validity of the Bible, not it's existence. It isn't surprising that your response consists of pointing out a badly constructed sentence rather than addressing what I put forth. Laughter afaik isn't a way of expressing frustration. Why, thank you! Yes, that, and the state of my bedroom is exactly the problem here. Now please, go ahead & shine a light on me and proceed to save my "soul" from eternal damnation! </sarcasm>
Wow, more confusion. What exactly did you "put forth?" Way too broad a swathe there, buddy boy... Unless you fancy yourself an impressionist artist, or something like that. Here's what I mean, son, please give me an example, just one or two, of the: "factual accuracy & validity of the Bible," (or in your obvious estimation - the lack thereof) that I may answer them one at a time. That's what I consider constructive debate. As I told Rebecca I am somewhat bed-ridden today and certainly stuck in the house. I shall go downstairs and eat some breakfast one of my duahgters was nice enough to put together for me, then I shall watch some football, and then I will answer one or two of your questions. Let's see if you can hone it down to something concrete like that. It could be fun and a good way to get to know each other.
Here's an entire video: http://www.godisimaginary.com/video2.htm, and many more here Knock yourself out
Hey EXE Good site! I have never seen that one before, but it explores in detail and verbalizes many of the doubts I have. Saving that one to my favorites as well... p.s. Oh now I see it is like a sister site to http://whywontgodhealamputees.com I am going to have to join there forum too...interesting stuff! Thanks
The one doing the evil is responsible for it. God decreed to allow sin to enter His creation but God does not and cannot practice evil. Judgment day is necessary because God is just and will not allow sin/evil to remain forever. The tension is why it hasn't happened already. God is also gracious and merciful. Had God judged the world the moment the first person sinned, there would be no human race and there would be no redemption. There is no "free will" in the true sense. The only true free will is God. Man's will is enslaved to his nature. Man does make choices but those choices are not outside of God's free will and determination. And yes, humans are no different than slaves in many aspects. Through the fall of man he has become a slave to sin. Through redemption man becomes more and more a slave to righteousness. Make no mistake, man is not God nor will he ever be God. Man is a created being made in God's image. God has made other creatures as well like angels. This created order exists at the pleasure of God. Like a King said thousands of year ago: The sovereignty of God kicks arrogant man in his ass. Humility and reverence go a long way. Remember that God hasn't revealed everything. The secret things belong to God and God's ways are not man's ways. This gets back to the Creator/creature distinction. For man to completely understand God he would need to be God. You cannot completely understand that which is greater than you.