United States Heading towards a Depression?

http://blogmaverick.com/2012/05/13/...hy-the-economy-wont-get-better-any-time-soon/

 

@Rebecca: Well it is more good recovery news on the economic front. Basically everyone recognizes that. The only ones who keep coming up with crazy commentary that there isn't recovery on the domestic auto front are the mouthpieces for the Right Wing. I view them as extremist. It is extreme, after all to face reality and improving conditions....and scream....this is bad.

Even Romney acknowledged the recovery a few days ago while campaigning in the midwest....where most auto manufacturing for parts (the independent manufacturers) and auto assembly (the big auto manufacturers) takes place.

Romney very specifically feels he should get credit for the managed bailout. Rebecca: I've included a video on this that is even handed....it references the situation with all the political implications from both sides: http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2012/05/09/news/doc4faa7e0e7525b709372030.txt

Romney, very specifically was against the bailout. He added that the bailout would lead the American auto manufacturers to failure and that a bailout would continue long held problems.

Obviously in both cases he was Immensely wrong!!!

He referenced a managed bailout in the famous NYTimes Op Ed piece he wrote. What he neglected to mention was there was NO PRIVATE MONEY. NONE. NADA. SQUAT. He has been specifically refuted on the claim by the very person who headed the financial rescue, a Wall Street expert, with enormous tentacles into all the sources for private money source

When financial institutions were failing and had required massive bailouts to stay alive.....where were the offers to provide for a "managed bailout"????? There were none.

While on the campaign trail, in the obvious light of tremendous recovery from the worst of the worst conditions at the height of the recession....Romney couldn't help but acknowledge the comeback. Very different from the talking heads of the extreme right. Meanwhile his unsubstantiated nutty claims for a piece of success....really are a crazy stretch for a guy who quite dramatically predicted abject failure for the auto bailout process.

Meanwhile, at Blue Star: The student loan issue is a crisis on the make, no doubt. Mark Cuban, the writer of the blog you references has creative ideas. While he pushes new web based education methods he also updated his blog to address the problems associated with the newish evolution of for profit colleges that often depend on web based education:

The NY Times just published a deep researched piece on the many facets of the emerging huge problem with student loans: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/b...ighing-down-a-generation-with-heavy-debt.html (Warning @O_nation: its a long piece....no cartoons....I'm sure you won't try and read it--).

Its a huge and complex issue:

1. Overall student debt has now exceeded $1 trillion. Its larger than consumer credit card debt.
2. Young people graduating from college today...have a tougher time getting good jobs with good income. Double OUCH!!! More debt and less income in this economy.
3. As young people face larger debt issues it delays their entry into the rest of the economy...slowing purchases of homes, cars, etc. It will dampen consumer spending....the bulk of the economy.
4. As a nation....we need educated people able to take on the higher quality higher technical requirements that jobs require. Its astounding in this economy with heavy unemployment....but certain jobs requiring higher tech skills are going unfilled.
5. Over time the nation has cut back on support of state and community higher education and turned more to private for profit schools that cost more, rely on federal loans, create higher default rates and lower levels of high technical capabilities.

It is a serious issue with many facets and sides. Right now the highly immobilized and overly political congress has turned one small facet of this entire issue into a political football...trying to arrive at a politically palatable solution to keep one aspect of federally subsidized loans at a low rate...even for a short time period.

Another crisis in the making.....

 

@Rebecca: Well it is more good recovery news on the economic front. Basically everyone recognizes that. The only ones who keep coming up with crazy commentary that there isn't recovery on the domestic auto front are the mouthpieces for the Right Wing. I view them as extremist. It is extreme, after all to face reality and improving conditions....and scream....this is bad.

Even Romney acknowledged the recovery a few days ago while campaigning in the midwest....where most auto manufacturing for parts (the independent manufacturers) and auto assembly (the big auto manufacturers) takes place.

Romney very specifically feels he should get credit for the managed bailout. Rebecca: I've included a video on this that is even handed....it references the situation with all the political implications from both sides: http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2012/05/09/news/doc4faa7e0e7525b709372030.txt

Romney, very specifically was against the bailout. He added that the bailout would lead the American auto manufacturers to failure and that a bailout would continue long held problems.

Obviously in both cases he was Immensely wrong!!!

He referenced a managed bailout in the famous NYTimes Op Ed piece he wrote. What he neglected to mention was there was NO PRIVATE MONEY. NONE. NADA. SQUAT. He has been specifically refuted on the claim by the very person who headed the financial rescue, a Wall Street expert, with enormous tentacles into all the sources for private money source

When financial institutions were failing and had required massive bailouts to stay alive.....where were the offers to provide for a "managed bailout"????? There were none.

While on the campaign trail, in the obvious light of tremendous recovery from the worst of the worst conditions at the height of the recession....Romney couldn't help but acknowledge the comeback. Very different from the talking heads of the extreme right. Meanwhile his unsubstantiated nutty claims for a piece of success....really are a crazy stretch for a guy who quite dramatically predicted abject failure for the auto bailout process.

Meanwhile, at Blue Star: The student loan issue is a crisis on the make, no doubt. Mark Cuban, the writer of the blog you references has creative ideas. While he pushes new web based education methods he also updated his blog to address the problems associated with the newish evolution of for profit colleges that often depend on web based education:

The NY Times just published a deep researched piece on the many facets of the emerging huge problem with student loans: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/b...ighing-down-a-generation-with-heavy-debt.html (Warning @O_nation: its a long piece....no cartoons....I'm sure you won't try and read it--).

Its a huge and complex issue:

1. Overall student debt has now exceeded $1 trillion. Its larger than consumer credit card debt.
2. Young people graduating from college today...have a tougher time getting good jobs with good income. Double OUCH!!! More debt and less income in this economy.
3. As young people face larger debt issues it delays their entry into the rest of the economy...slowing purchases of homes, cars, etc. It will dampen consumer spending....the bulk of the economy.
4. As a nation....we need educated people able to take on the higher quality higher technical requirements that jobs require. Its astounding in this economy with heavy unemployment....but certain jobs requiring higher tech skills are going unfilled.
5. Over time the nation has cut back on support of state and community higher education and turned more to private for profit schools that cost more, rely on federal loans, create higher default rates and lower levels of high technical capabilities.

It is a serious issue with many facets and sides. Right now the highly immobilized and overly political congress has turned one small facet of this entire issue into a political football...trying to arrive at a politically palatable solution to keep one aspect of federally subsidized loans at a low rate...even for a short time period.

Another crisis in the making.....

 

Personal attack? If you think correcting your alternate view of reality is a personal attack you've got some really thin skin.

Once again; "Just cause you say it, does not make it so."

My source Rebecca is reality. BTW, you do not sound calm. You sound flustered and irritated.

You're upset because someone called you out and pointed out your misrepresentation of fact.

 

Sane people live in different universe than yours and have a different view of of reality.

 

@Earlpearl: Nice double post! I skimmed it (too long to read) and I had to laugh at your homage to the "Obama Recovery". Here is your Obama Recovery.


The Obama Recovery

Those having or actively seeking work, as a percentage of those eligible and able to work



Bureau of Labor Statistics




And regarding the problem with student debt, yet another taxpayer subsidized loan scandal brought to us by the Democrats and a few idiotic Republicans. When the government starts handing out $40,000 to get a degree in underwater basket weaving, it has the same effect on the price of real education that cheap government subsidized mortgages for low income housing had on the value of houses across the US. "Cheap" government money = Inflated prices. Its not really all that complicated.

Obama is about this close to telling students they don't have to pay their trillion dollars in debt for worthless degrees. Hey, whats another trillion dollars in debt under Obama, right? We can just tax those 25 or so uber rich people. They will pick up the tab. OF course those "college grads" will remain equally unemployable, but who really needs them to work.

 

Actually I find these two graphs very telling as to what really occurs during a Right Wing Administration.....an incredible difference between what they say and what they do:

In the 1st example we see that despite the rhetoric we see that under the Right Wing GOP....they like to hire government workers and spend taxpayer monies. Between what the Right Wing says...and it what it does....there is an enormous gap!!!!


In the 2nd example we see that with regard to private job growth from a recession.....employment has occurred far faster than when Bush was in office and facing a recession first term.

I guess its no surprise that on May 7 Romney commended recovery in the auto industry:

Private employment has rebounded and recovered from when Obama took over. Now as it regards employment we'll have to regain those jobs lost under the Bush administration...and all those public sector jobs lost.

(You'd think--The Right Wing would be singing, dancing, and promoting the fact that so many government jobs have been lost. It is after all what they keep yapping about!!!)

 

Poor Earlpearl. Still thinks Obama is running against George W. Bush. Still the humor of such misleading graphs was not lost on me. Looking at Obama's blue line in the second graph, one would think Obama has already recovered all the jobs lost since the start of his presidency. Obviously a complete fiction fabricated by only looking a certain portion of the jobs numbers.

The first graph was equally entertaining. If it is to be believed, then one has to swallow an extra trillion dollars in stimulus, an extra 40% added to the baseline federal budget, and the expansion of the federal budget to 26% of GDP, ALL without adding net jobs in the public sector. If Obama was really able to spend that much public money while presiding over net public sector job loss, he is deserving of a congressional inquiry into what was done with the money.

One last note. You'll find my graph, two posts above, was clipped directly in from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, while your graphs, while attributed to a financial blog, are not sourceable within that blog to provide context. If lies, half truths, and misleading charts are all Obama's supporters have to offer in 2012, I'm feeling pretty good about him getting the boot in November. Moochelle should grab a few more girls trips to spain on Airforce One, before the gig is up.

 

Who gets the money ? Both sides... so the economic problems are a non-partisan issue. See the second largest donor : LINK

​

 

Holy crap! I've looked around Open Secret's site before, which has great information on individual donors but I've never seen the chart from your link, which orders them from top to bottom. That is unreal!

You can find the Koch brothers down the list at #74, with total donations of just over 12 million dollars, 10% of which they gave to Democrats. Then you look at the top 18 Donors and not one of them leans toward Republicans, with most of the anonymous big corporate money going nearly entirely to Democrats! Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, JP Morgan, and all the labor Unions, with donations starting at 27 million and going up to the #1 slot being ActBlue with 61Million, 100% of it going to Democrats! That is unbelievable! It makes the Koch brothers seem like nickle and dime players.

 

Julian, the DP Members picture thread is located here: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=343767

In the future, please post your picture there. Post reported as inappropriate thread/wrong category.

 

I am not about to tally up the results, but those corps could have invested that money back into their own businesses or given big cuts to their customers, right?

But the bigger question about the debt is... who is going to pay? Will it be the bankers? The politicians? Who is going to pay for the trillions of debt that is multiplying daily?


Those of you who are better with numbers than I am and can do the "compounded interest" thing with the amount of $15,724,159,467,000 ( LINK ) dollars, please tell us all what is going to happen this year, just using simple math.


Remember.... who is going to pay?


Just since I have been sitting here writing this post, this number :

$15,724,159,467,000


has gone up to this number:


$15,724,164,877,000

( I can not keep track of the last three numbers, they go too fast. )

 

@Blue Star:

Debt is always a serious issue. you referenced the size of student debt earlier....and we saw o_nation just make snide comments about it.

Prior to this past recession there was an incredible bubble of all private debt; credit card, mortgage, student debt, corporate debt...all except public debt. Private debt exploded far faster than governtment debt prior to the recession that started in 2007.

One of the amazing things about the US debt situation was that it went into balance and then started to diminish back in the 1990's. It totally reversed in the 2000's once the Bush tax cuts went into effect. Its only gotten steadily worse. The recession of course made it more severe. The debts that the feds picked up to bail out parts of the economy made it more severe.

It would be nice to take a stab at seriously reducing debt. Do you realize that in the moving floating negotiations in congress to address debt at one point Obama and the Dems offered up to $10 of cost cutting for every $1 in raising tax rates. The increases were on wealthy people...sort of like Mitt Romney...you know $21 million in income and less than 14% in federal taxes.

Seriously if the GOP wouldn't accept that...is there any hope at all that the GOP would ever tackle the debt issue???

 

Link please, and not some BS like how Obama cut Medicare, when he actually applied his medicare cuts to ObamaCare in an effort to make it seem less costly. If Obama had been at all serious about cutting debt, he would have embraced Simpson-Bowles. A federal budget that is 25% of GDP is impossible for him to run away from.

 

That is where you are wrong.

Spending is always a serious issue, not debt.

 

So... who is going to pay?

​

 

I guess I will not expect an answer. Deep down people know...

 

Like Earlpearl says, all we need to do is increase the taxes on the 25 or so uber rich and America's financial problems will be solved. So what if they are fleeing America like Jews from Nazi Germany. We tax them as they leave, and now, if Sen. Schummer has his way, we tax them even when they are no longer US citizens. Hell, why not just build a fence aroud the country, and put the army on it to keep people in.

 

It is not necessary, now we have drones.

 

Even if you increased taxes 100% on the richest of the rich, it would not create enough revenue to pay for one day of spending in the current administration.

The problem at hand is in reducing spending. Do that and debt goes away; taxes will decrease as well.