Tragedy is about the only word that can be used to describe the shooting of Trayvon Martin, at least until the pit-bull special prosecutor assigned to the case arrives at a finding as to whether there is enough evidence to prosecute. All told, disclosure of whatever evidence the police have has been non-existent, leaving the media precious little to wage their televised trial for the American people. For the most part, It isn't too different than the Casey Anthony trial, where Nancy Grace, blood dripping from her jowls, held nightly vigils calling for Ms. Anthony's incarceration. Miss Anthony ended up walking on her charges for lack of evidence, Nancy Grace probably went home and kicked her dog once or twice, tried to stoke the outrage for another week or two, and finally let it go. That will not be the case with Travyon Martin. This is an election year, and our president has weighed in on the case, much like he did in the case of the beer summit. Now we have the NAACP marching in the streets, the black panthers offering cash rewards for the kill or capture of Zimmerman, and the liberal media acting as judge and jury, literally shouting down anyone who would dare say we don't know all the facts yet. [video=youtube;M6Z0vBfu-Po]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M6Z0vBfu-Po[/video] Racial tension in America hasn't been this high since the LA riots, despite the fact America has it's first black president. Going a step further, I would say the president is partially to blame for the lynch mob, calls to bypass due process, and presumption of guilt. Why? Trayvon Martin's death is political gold. The black community, perhaps more than the rest of America, has experienced first hand the consequences of the Obama economy. For all the adulation at his election, many have recently been scratching their heads, wondering when things will actually get better. The 2012 election cycle was looking like a reasonable risk that a group that voted 96% in 2008 to elect Obama might not show up to the polls in as large of numbers in 2012. It became more clear than ever when, at today's march, the following words were spoken: Meanwhile, in the past 7-10 days, ten black young men have been shot to death and forty-nine wounded in Chicago, two white Mississippi students killed by black assailants in two separate incidences, a California hispanic teen was assaulted by a group of black teens shouting racial epitaphs, and two blacks died after a gang shooting at a funeral in miami. No political gain to be had from their deaths, so you won't hear much about them. The whole thing is actually very impressive to see. For anyone interested in a little more reading on how it all works, the liberal rag The New Republic did a wonderful write up on Obama, pre-election 2007 entitled, "The Agitator".
You lost me with that. There was hardly a lack of evidence. There was overwhelming evidence of her guilt.
I doubt anyone believes Ms. Anthony did not have a hand in the death of her child, either by simple negligence or something more sinister. I suspect most people believe Casey Anthony is a vacuous, self centered, lying,piece of crap who cares only about herself. When the prosecutor went for murder one, he put a burden of proof on himself and the state they were simply unable to reach. Do you really think they had enough evidence to get a murder one conviction? This is the problem with lynch mobs. The trial being held by the media on TV uses evidence that may not even be allowed into the court room. The current lynch mob doesn't even have access to the 90% of the evidence being reviewed by the prosecutor right now. Unless you think the special prosecutor appointed to this case has her head up her ass, there is likely a very good reason why Zimmerman is still walking around right now without having been arrested. Given that we are a country where citizens are supposedly innocent until proven guilty, I'd say there is a better than even chance Zimmerman will never do time for Martin's killing, even if he is eventually charged and tried. In the meantime, we have the media using this as a political wedge issue to get out the vote in the black community, which I can appreciate from a tactical standpoint. What do you think is going to happen when Zimmerman walks for lack of evidence(likely), or even if he is convicted of something like manslaughter(probably worst case) with a five year sentence? In a word, riots. I'm not a fan of Casey Anthony, and George Zimmerman unfortunately comes off as exactly the type of guy our police departments love to hire. I still don't think OJ, Anthony, or Zimmerman are legitimate reasons to change our system to one based on a presumption of guilt, especially if that presumption comes from a political power play. The US already has 25% of the world population of prison inmates, despite our 5% representation of the world population. Sometimes, when I turn on TV in the US, I have a hard time telling the difference between the talking heads, howling for justice and blood (between episodes of Lockup Raw), and the Imam's in some third world middle eastern sh*thole stirring up resentment over the outrage of the day, perhaps a cartoon, or a statement someone has made. These tactics aren't exactly new.
Wow, it's painful listening / watching people like Toure talk... The exchange 10:30 is absolutely obnoxious and looks / sounds like a complete a**. Does he honestly think he's helping the case ? Also, obamanation you're not surprised to see Obama drop the ball, are you ? ;-)
I do. She was also up for aggravated manslaughter but the jury also found her not guilty of aggravated manslaughter.
I'll have to disagree. I watched several juror interviews afterwards (they also obviously disagreed). From all I can tell, they executed their duties properly. Its not a perfect system.
They can come to any conclusion they want and discharge their duty properly. That doesn't mean there was not sufficient evidence of her guilt.
Sure, but I can't think of anyone who would naturally have a lot of sympathy for a mother who kills her own child. It stands to reason that the conclusion they arrived at was based on the evidence, the applicable law, and little else. You and I can scream "wrong verdict" all we like, but there is little evidence to impugn the motives of the jurors, leaving me to defer to their collective wisdom. Frankly, I can't see how anyone can say they somehow know better than the jury. Zimmerman, same story. The original police investigators and state attorneys have all been replaced with people known for aggressively pursuing and obtaining convictions. If Zimmerman walks, it won't be for lack of effort on the part of the state to prosecute him, but rather for lack of evidence. What possible good can come from inciting the black community to refuse any outcome other than a prison sentence? That is what most people call a lynch mob, something that particular community has some history with. Oh the irony.
I don't have to impugn the motives of the jurors to disagree with their conclusion. Juries are wrong all the time. Don't be foolish thinking nobody can know better than a jury. Obviously, when there is no video or other indisputable proof nobody can say for sure what happened. But having watched the majority of that trial, I can say there was more than enough evidence to convict. I never say a jury is wrong since they can vote as they wish - but I don't have to share their opinion either. This is one case where I think finding the mother not guilty of any responsibility for her daughters death, with all the facts presented, was simply wrong. You don't have to agree with me. She drove around with the smell of her dead baby in her car for days, she lied through her teeth to everyone about where her baby was, she lied to the police, to everyone. It was clear to me, based on the totality of the facts presented that she caused the death of her daughter, lied about it, and covered it up. I have no idea if she intended to kill her - it could have very well been an accidental drugging. Either way, I would have held her accountable. As for Trayvon and George, I have no idea what happened that night other than what everyone agrees to - that an unarmed man was shot to death. Whether or not a crime occurred under Florida law is yet to be determined - but I think one can also conclude the shooting was avoidable and unnecessary - even if found to be legal.
She lied about it, covered it up, true. What were the facts you saw that indicated or added up to a clear cause of death? Probably. Then again, it could turn out Martin was a thief who had been robbing houses in the community. It could turn out that Zimmerman backed off his wanna-be cop gig when the 911 operator told him to quit following. It could turn out that Martin, seeing Zimmerman back off, got his gusto up and decided to see how far a little intimidation would go. It could be that Martin initiated the actual physical assault and Zimmerman responded in self defense. If those turned out to be the facts of the story, the only way to truly avoid such an outcome would be to a) force Zimmerman to run or b) disarm Zimmerman by means of the law. Options A and B have a lot of fans, I'm just not one of them. Anyway, its just more idle speculation. Zimmerman is probably just an overzealous wanna be cop who found or created trouble when he went looking for it. The jury will make the call on this one too, and as usual, I'll abide by it, right or wrong.
Why do you need to show a clear cause of death to hold her responsible? I don't know the exact definition of manslaughter in Florida, but usually it just means you proved an unlawful killing of another person. There are lots of murders that take place with no witness, and scant facts. That doesn't mean you can't show by circumstantial evidence that somebody was guilty of the crime. You just need to use your common sense. The only way to find her innocent is to use rank speculation that is not supported by any facts. That is not the way jurors are supposed to weigh evidence. As for Trayvon and George... it is almost undoubted that George created the conflict between the two - that might not be enough to make him guilty under Florida law, but I think most rational people realize he was overzealous and caused a situation where either he jumped the gun and fired before he was in danger or caused the situation where he later felt he was in danger. I am not sure how a man in a truck going to the store is so threatened by a black man walking on a sidewalk that he has to confront and shoot him. If he felt threatened after he confronted Trayvon, well I would be curious what the law would do with a black man who was confronted by a white man, felt threatened and shot him. Frankly, George is lucky Trayvon wasn't armed as Florida law seems much more like it was written to protect the Trayvon's being confronted by an armed man, than the George's who while armed, confront unarmed men.
Correct. Florida statute defines aggravated manslaughter as "the killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification" If you remember the case, everyone thought the defense attorney was nuts for opening with a theoretical alternate theory of cause of death. I believe the tale he told was one where little Caylee fell in the pool, drowned, and loving mother Casey panicked. They thought he was nuts because he had no obligation to prove an alternative theory, but the state did have an obligation to prove it's theory. Turns out, the defense attorney wasn't so nuts after all. The pool drowning story was possible, and with any other person of reasonable moral character, more probable. Under the law, he only needed to create a reasonable doubt as to the cause of death, one that didn't involve Casey. Is it perfect? No. I happen to agree that Casey Anthony's low moral character made negligent homicide the more likely cause of death, though I still can't completely rule out a pool drowning. Then again, I didn't sit in that court room for weeks, and witness the many people who spoke of Casey as a loving and caring mother. Like you, I mostly got the enraging sound bites that made it damn obvious Casey Anthony needs to be punished. I seriously doubt those jurors are much different than you and I, so they obviously saw something very different. As a bonus, from this we get things like Caylee's law, another tool our leaders would put in the hands of the police allowing them to punish the epidemic of bad parents in America like Casey Anthony. Please. Just another way for the state to threaten and control the public. Just another way to feed our prison population, and create unemployable ex-felons once those people leave state custody. Those are certainly the facts a few tv stations would have you believe. If the existence of a neighborhood watch program itself can be construed as creating conflict, then I can definitely I agree. That aside, I can believe George was overzealous by initially giving chase. Outside of that, I'll wait for some facts, or better still the jury verdict. Why did you just inject race into the story? Is it because nearly 50% of the murders in America are committed by black men, 93% of those murders being of other black men? If so, that sounds a lot like an argument for Zimmerman to fear for his life. If not, was there some other evidence you had that Zimmerman's overzealous "Observe and Report" routine was racially motivated? He is lucky Trayvon wasn't armed. According to state attorney Willie Meggs in Tallahassee, gang members and drug dealers regularly and successfully invoke Stand Your Ground. I can't imagine any of those people being... black. Why don't we hear about those people more often? Because it wasn't the right two people killing each other, or perhaps it wasn't election year.
How do you know, were you there ? Or are you just going by the sweet innocent pictures and story laid out about Trayvon ? Why does he get the benefit of the doubt of being innocent here, and Zimmerman doesn't ? It's pretty weird that people keep referring to Zimmerman as a "white man", considering he's half hispanic....
1. They are both presumed innocent. The fact is that George shot a man dead. Trayvon didn't have a gun. 2. Hispanic is his ethnicity, not his race. There are Hispanic people who are black as well as Hispanic people who are white.
Ethnicity is enough to get you booked on a hate crime. That's why they call it "Ethnic cleansing". Here is my question. Can we take away the president's status as the first African American president by calling him a "White African American"? After all, his mother was white....
Call him whatever you want. His mom was white, his dad was black. He is still a black man - it describes the color of his skin, not his ancestry.
If it is only color of skin that matters, then albinos should be blocked from affirmative action benefits. We are also going to need new terms to describe brown latinos from white latinos. White latinos obviously should be treated as whites for all intents and purposes.