Organised religions and NGO's should be taxed too.

I'm not that familiar with Kiva, but, the recipients of these loans may be paying very high interest rates. They don't just transfer the money to the people in need, but use micro-finance services, known as "field partners." If you click on individual field partners, and then on "Portfolio Yield" in right hand box, it says that portfolio yield is:

And, it tells you what it's charging borrowers. If I'm looking at this correctly, these micro-finance services are making quite a bit of money off this. I clicked on a few at the top half of the page, where they're rated the highest by Kiva. Just glancing at the first 6, it's 21%, 34%, 28%, 37%, 27%, and 39%. Not sure if I'm looking at that correctly. But, if so, wow. That's a pretty expensive loan.


Edit: Ooops, I'm sorry. You already caught that before I did:

 

It sounds like they've got themselves quite a racket going. They make money on interest while people loaning on the site are fronting the money. How much do you actually get on your loan? I'm curious when they charge some poor person 25% interest, how much they keep and how much you get. You absorb all the risk, they keep most of the interest. How that's legal, I'm not sure other than some loophole.

 

Its at least as legal as the payday loans, liquor, and lottery tickets sold in bulk in poor neighborhoods. Frankly, I don't think it should be illegal, despite its highly questionable moral nature. They are providing a service, and there are consumers willing to pay those rates.

The bit of your quote that I bolded is the real genius. I can't speak for Kiva, but most of the lenders I know set up these things as interest only loans. Each month, the borrower makes a payment of roughly 3%.It looks like Kiva takes that cash and exits the well meaning financial backer with his principal (no interest) ASAP, in this case, Bob Lord. If they fail to pay the principal, people like Bob are the only ones who are really out.

Once Bob has been exited, however, Kiva and their Microlending partners, can continue to milk the profit from the loan into perpetuity. Its a zero risk 100% profit business for them. F'n genius really.

 

Why didn't I think of that before? Oh wait, those little ethics thingies get in my way sometimes. Dangit.

 

Nope, never said anything of the sort.

Nope, it was a Kiva member discussion, if you were a Kiva member you would be able to join in their forum and find it in searches.

I only know one person who invested in Tasmanian forests - they got burned. You feel free to practice your economic theories though.

Nope, I knew all of that you big silly billy, it's all information that is freely available as you found. The high interest rate is much discussed on the forum and the reasons for the high rate has been provided multiple times. You could read a book by Mohammed Yunis to find out why the interest rate is high. It is a good read and I recommend it to you.

As for Kiva making millions of dollars off the backs of simple silly folk like me, the very, very simple fact is that a person such as myself can choose whether or not to donate money to Kiva at the time of making or withdrawing the loan. The loan in full goes to the people who need the money and can be withdrawn in full after the loan has been repaid. I sometimes choose to give money to the Kiva organisation and I sometimes choose not to - but it comes down to my choice.

Us poor simple, dumb Kiva lenders make no money on interest whatsoever. We are just crazy dudes who think that it is a good thing to help people.

 

WHAT?! This is even worse. I could see making maybe a bit of the 25% interest rate, like maybe 5%. But fronting all the risk and getting nothing back while some company makes a ton, that's just crazy as you stated, but not in the same context. At least a charity has to account for how much it donates and you get a write off. Just fronting money and hoping to get it back without a single profit on the return while someone else gets rich is indicative of one thing and one thing only. Here's a hint, they're candy on a stick and rhymes with pucker.

 

Nope - you should find out more about microlending before you compare them to loan sharks.

Loans are made on a time to pay basis. They are either paid out as in something like 99% of cases or default. The only default I have had was after 95% had been paid back and that money then became available to be either withdrawn or relent.

Once again Kiva lenders have the choice.

 

Well you know Onation, there are people in this world who give to their favourite charities and make a 100% loss minus their tax break of course. Obviously you are not one of them. I choose to make loans, it means I can use a small amount of money and relend without digging into my bank account again and again. The multiplier effect means that there are currently over a dozen loans open on my books helping people and it means I can relend to three more parties this month. This makes me happy. Try it - it's a way better feeling than embracing the horror.

 

Oh really?

More free common sense. Blatant dishonesty is bad for your credibility.

Ah, well, I guess we can all just take your word for it .

You think I don't understand why the interest rate is high? LoL. I also understand why people publish books making excuss for the high interest rates.

Well then keep it up by all means!You are making a difference, just like the people who fund teak farms thnking they are saving the rainforest. After all, they aren't building condominiums on that land, now are they. Rainforest Saved!

I hope you didnt get the impression I was disparaging your contributions to Kiva's wealth portfolio. I wasn't. Another part of the genius of the business model is, Kiva contributors actually feel better about themselves for contributing, even though they are fully aware of the interest rates being charged. How much is feeling good about yourself worth?

I personally find it inspirational. It makes me want to open up a chain of combo gun/liquor stores in poor inner city neighborhoods. Never ending demand, high profits, and satisfied customers. Its a win, win, win.

 

Nearly correct, the field partners make the money from interest not the micro-finance services - they make their money from donations. All businesses have to make money.

The high interest rates are there to stay. A field partner office is not a 50 story Citicorp building, the only one I have come close to actually seeing in person was in Fiji and then I could only find a sign not the office itself. As Yunus explains in his book, loans are most often finalised on dirt floors of houses in out of the way villages between the representative of the field partner who had arrived on a bicycle and some of the poorest people in the world. In other words, very high risk loans made in often hostile conditions.

The biggest beneficiaries have been women who would not have been able to source any type of loan from what we would consider normal sources - banks, credit unions etc. Being able to borrow money means being able to get ahead a little better in life. The extraordinary high rate of repayment is way better than that received by banks in richer countries. "The poor people of the world pay their bills better than the rich because they have a higher regard for money." That's paraphrasing Yunus from my memory from his book. His organisation is Grameen.

I most often lend to groups figuring they will help each other to repay the loan and groups most often are all women doing the normal family thing of trying to put kids through school etc. The groups are usually trying to make money through different very small ventures. So small sometimes that it is hard for a westerner to comprehend that it is an actual business that requires capital to improve. Selling homemade food or crafts from the doorway of their home for instance.

It's not good that interest rates are so high, but that's the way it is.

 

What a shame your extensive travelling didn't give you a better understanding and respect for other cultures and its peoples. Oh that's right you were too busy hanging out with drug dealers, drink driving, being involved in police chases, spreading graffiti and being completely obnoxious to the people of the country you were a guest in. You're best off staying in your basement.

 

Now now. That looks suspiciously like a personal attack that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

Mind you, I'm not denying the profile, but I would dispute the first bit. I am perfectly capable of gaining an understanding of other cultures and their people while being a drunk and completely obnoxious guest. The funny thing is, it is something I picked up from Aussie friends I met in California as a teenager. Oh, and the guys who were selling marijuana to pay their way through south east asia .... also Aussies. From my fairly extensive experience with Australians, you wouldn't get along with them at all.

If it makes you feel any better I'm much older and slightly less obnoxious now. I'm sure my Australian warrants have long since exceeded the statute of limitations. Next trip to Brisbane, I expect you to pick me up at the airport and be a good host.

 

Oh no it wasn't a personal attack, just repeating some of the things you have admitted doing, the laws you have broken, after you mentioned the word honesty. Don't blame Aussies for your actions mate, you and you alone are responsible. Sure, I'll definitely pick up up at the airport, no worries - I have something for you.

 

Those little ethics thingies do get in the way.

It's a shame they charge them such an extraordinarily high interest rate.

 

We don't hate Americans, in fact we like them, we just don't want to become America mark II. Americans are fine, many of you live here. It's the lifestyle we don't want. Too much corruption I think, too stressful for most laid-back Aussies.

As for "We were British outcasts and Aussies were outcasts/prisoners." you need to check your history. Britain shipped their convicts there first. It was the war of independence that made them stop. Prisoners were then shipped to Africa, many got lost, in the meantime Cook discovered Australia, so they settled on shipping them here. In effect America and Australia was built by convicts.

 

Agreed with 100% - That's a first bushie.

 

Not sure what owning up to a few drunken yabo adventures has to do with being dishonest. If anything, admissions such as these would be a sign of honesty. Perhaps what disturbs you is the lack of self loathing and guilt.

Blame? I was simply pointing out one of the reasons I generally like Australians.

My home town in California is littered with Aussies. For not liking the lifestyle, there sure are a hell a lot of em here. Its not like Oz is just a few miles to the south like Mexico. It takes a bit of effort to get here.

 

I applaud my fellow Aussies for doing that. If you want to live the American lifestyle, move there.

 

Meanwhile, a few weeks ago:

Originally Posted by Obamanation
Yawn. Remind me to never bring you a mirror again. Apparently you don't like what you see. I personally don't have a problem with it. Australia is one of the greatest nations on this planet, in my opinion. I toy with the idea of moving to Byron bay one day. I think I'd fit right in.

Originally Posted by Boblord666
No - germy, filthy little turds who display no human characteristics will never be welcomed.​

.

Hey o'nation... Go ahead and take his advice. Oughta be in pristine condition, having never been used.